Jan 29 2007
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Incident at Aztec
Back in the halcyon days of March 2004, I wrote an article for Britain’s Fortean Times on the infamous UFO crash (or non-UFO crash, depending on your opinion) at Aztec, New Mexico in 1948. A strange tale full of conmen, snooping FBI agents, Air Force Intelligence, shadowy informants, secret journals, and more, Aztec is the type of case that you just don’t seem to hear of today. But if, like me, you’re a fan of some of those wacky and weird old tales from the early days of ufology, check out Fortean Times’ website, as my article is now posted there.
It’s a testament to the sheer strangeness of the case that Aztec simply refuses to roll over and die. Doubtless, as with Roswell, it will still be discussed 50 years from now.
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January 29th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Its an example of a ‘true’ ufo sighting. One that cannot be argued about.
January 29th, 2007 at 9:56 am
Smylex:
The only way it “cannot be argued about” is if someone has definitive proof. Unless someone can present that proof we are are stuck in that “yes, it’s real,” / “no, it’s not” scenario that typifies all of ufology.
As someone who has spent considerable time at Aztec, been to the alleged crash site on several occasions, visited the FBI’s archives in DC and reviewed all the available files on the case and the players, I can tell you that there are big problems - such as the info coming from Silas Newton. Check out his FBI file (which can be found in the A-Z section of the FBI’s “For Researchers” section of its website). It’s not a good picture of a credible informant.
Granted, people like Scott Ramsay have made good headway into the case anad have interviewed people who say Aztec is real.
But we aren’t anywhere near the point of saying it “cannot be argued about” - unless, as I said, we have firm proof, not just testimony.
January 29th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
What I would like opinions on is: Why is the subject of UFOs (read here “flying saucers”) being covered up by world governments?
I mean, let’s say, for the sake of argument that at least some of them are indeed the sky-chariots of little green men not of this world. After decades of sightings why is there still denial of the very existence of these things by the Powers That Be?
Here are some golden oldies from the past:
1. They really are all attributable to mistaken conventional aircraft, planets, space debris re-entering Earth’s atmosphere, odd meteorological phenomenon, swamp gas, hysteria, and outright fraud.
2. The “common people” can’t handle the truth that we are not alone; that our technology is not the biggest and baddest anywhere to be found, and that would cause chaos in the ranks of the proletariat.
3. Our currently accepted religious systems would be undermined because Mankind would no longer be the acme of the Great Creator’s handiwork, and we would all lose faith thus tearing apart the foundations of civilization as we know it.
4. Little green men are in secret league with shadow elements of governments with the agreement that the shadowy guys get advanced technological toys in exchange for running interference for the biological research the little green men are performing at will on humans.
5. World governments are actively engaged in trying to acquire advanced technology without competing governments knowing what they’ve got. Therefore they cover up the existence of said little green men from the public and from other governments.
Most of these ideas sound only marginally convincing to me. Anyone out there got any really new, compelling notions they’d care to put on the table?
January 29th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Raven:
It may be that no government knows what these things are. They know they are there, but really don’t know much more than that. If they admit they exist, we will expect them to tell us what they are. When they can’t tell us….well they don’t want to be put in that position.
January 29th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Seeing,
I take it that means you believe the reason for non-admission is the “We [governments] know they exist but we can’t admit it to the Proles lest they become restless and/or panicked” hypothesis?
January 29th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
To Raven:
“What I would like opinions on is: Why is the subject of UFOs (read here “flying saucersâ€) being covered up by world governments?”
Here are but a few suggestions, I’m sure others can think of many more.
1. It is standard procedure to downplay a situation until accurate intel is provided, in this case a cover-up might initialy have been created in order to fuly understand THEM and their motives for coming here.
2. Assuming accurate intel was provided, the actual nature of such knowledge would most definately upset our fragile human psyche, let alone our society, therefore the cover-up must be maintained.
3. We were taken over a long time ago by THEM, hence the cover-up of UFO’s is by their command.
4. What THEY are. Refering back to #2 above, it is quite possible that THEY do not meet our assumptions about what extraterrestrials would be. For example, it is far unlikely that we are dealing with an organic species. It is far more probable that we are dealing with an advanced form of A.I., one that may view us as a resource to manage at it’s discretion. This knowledge, if released to the public, may result in a new ‘Dark Ages’, where people abandon technology out of fear
5. Disclosure may be something the controllers of UFO’s actualy want. Those responsible for the cover-up may realize this and are attempting to by time for our species by keeping us in the dark. (It’s quite possible that there may be a massive infiltration of UFO’s once the majority of people accept their existance.)
6.) The standard, ‘We can’t handle the truth.’ This may or may not be true.
7.) The Conquistador Effect: Primitive civilizations are either destroyed or assimilated when coming in contact with a more advanced civilization. Therefore, the powers that be are keeping us in the dark as a last ditch effort to protect our species.
January 29th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Nick,
My opinion on the Aztec crash is: I don’t know.
Raven,
UFO cover ups and my opinion; two theories.
1. as someone else postulated, the government does not know whats going on and to up and admit that is not only an embarrasment but detracts public confidence that the government defense establishment can protect the people. (the likely scenario)
2. the government knows exactly what “they are” they know they are psychic and demonic phenomina. They know the effect is reflective and so they try to shut up anyone who goes around “lecturing on the spacebrothers” they also know that these unstoppable forces are trying to ursurp the government for reasons unknown, so they are paranoid of investigative groups and they destroy the careers of government employees who are visited, contacted or abducted. Since it is an intellegence problem they work around the clock to counter the enemy and attempt counter intellegence operations that run from electronic surveillence to remote viewing and just out and out brute force against witnesses. Also since “hybrids” and “contactees” have infiltrated every level of government most agents don’t know who is working for “them” and who is working for “us” and how to tell “them” from “us”
a less likely scenario and the one I fear the most, but it would make a great television drama
Jess
January 30th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Nick:
As you know, my view is that Aztec is 100% hoax, as detailed in myriad postings at my blog. Could the government have used it after the fact to cover some decidely mundane, albeit secret, activities? Perhaps, although I’ve not seen any real evidence to support that. But as for a UFO crash, no way.
Paul
January 30th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Paul
Yep, I recall very well your views on Aztec. I think the one area that you touch on - to cover up something else - is one that few have investigated.
Indeed, there has been very little follow-up on the late Karl Pflock’s revelation that he was shown (under odd circumstances and by an un-named source) a type of journal written by Silas Newton in the early 70s, a year or two before his death (Karl personally told me that it matched Newton’s handwriting based on the writing in his - Newton’s - will).
According to Karl’s published output on this, Newton’s journal suggested that he had been visited by government/military insiders who said they knew his Aztec story was bogus, but they wanted him to keep on spreading it.
Now, of course, Newton was a known conman; and so we have to take his words carefully. But his comments pre-dated the mass of tales about government-originated disinformation concerning specifically crashed UFOs that began to surface in the late 70s and early 80s. If nothing else, therefore, he was quite the prophet when it comes to crashed UFOs, and insider sources and bogus tales.
So, if there was a cover-up of something else with Aztec, maybe Newton was involved with the bare bones of it.
It may of course been a part of some weird psy-op too for obscure reasons we haven’t even considered.
February 2nd, 2007 at 1:20 am
As this has generated a lot of talk about “what the government knows,” I respectfully refer all commenters to my three posts on the subject. Some of the issues were brought up here, some not.