Talking About UFOs With Friends
On a recent visit with a friend, his wife brought up the subject of my UFO lectures. This evolved into a discussion of where UFOs “come from.” Pointing out that the question “Do you believe in UFOs?” really means “Do you think that aliens are coming here from other planets?” I said that it was a possibility, but nowhere near proven.
My buddy came back with the oft-used argument that it is highly probable that other civilizations exist in the universe, and that it would be surprising if they hadn’t come by for a look. This is of course used by most “alien” UFO proponents. He also described a spectacular UFO sighting he experienced on the California coast many years ago. I couldn’t explain it.
The problem with the “high probability” line of reasoning is that it uses an assumption as a proof (or near as one can get.) It requires a leap of faith to assume that other theories (tulpas, cryptoterrestrials, time travelers, etc) are less valid than the ET hypothesis, with no more going for it than our present belief structures. In this sense it shares equal weight with these other ideas, but it is nearly always presented as the only theory worthy of consideration.
It is also the best represented in the popular media and by UFO researchers who get most of the TV time, so it blinds us to other possibilities. It may take years and new (and quickly grasped) discoveries in science to get people thinking about other, more interesting theories. When the popular mind begins to accept different concepts of time, causality and human cognition, bolstered by repeatable and easily demonstrated experiments that reinforce the connections between them, perhaps the egg may begin to crack on the UFO “problem.” A new way of looking at waking consciousness may even change the scope of UFO sightings and more importantly, closer encounters.
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Feb 21 2009 
February 22nd, 2009 at 12:56 am
Greg,
I hope I understand your point (please correct me if I’m wrong): While the ETH is as valid as other hypotheses, the failure of researchers to consider the other hypotheses may hinder our progress toward understanding the true nature of the phenomena.
I agree with your assessment of the situation, and I have an open mind about all of the possibilities. I think one reason the ETH is so popular is the behavior of the UFO’s, themselves. How many times have you read or heard a witness describe the UFO as “starlike,” “disappearing into the sky,” etc. The logical leap for the average person is that the UFO’s come from “outer space.” Although I have no statistics on this particular point, I would say that most UFO’s fly up and away before disappearing. Why? Ghosts, faeries, and the assorted monsters that we hear about, seem to vanish into thin air, quite close to the surface of the earth. People who study these mysteries have no reluctance to consider other dimensions as the entities’ destination.
Also, I have a question/comment concerning tulpas. Does it not require a great deal of effort and practice to create a tulpa? If so, how does a person create a tulpa spontaneously? I’m thinking about a person who is driving along, minding his or her own business, not thinking about tulpas, UFO’s or anything in particular–and then sees something totally unexplainable. If we can rule out the usual suspects, hallucination, optical illusion, man made or natural objects, could a tulpa still be a possibility? And, if it’s true that people see what they want to see, why is it that I don’t see fleets of UFO’s?
February 22nd, 2009 at 4:13 am
I hereby raise my glass to you. I suspect a portion of the UFO phenomenon is attributable to random, naturally occuring, as yet unidentified events that interfere with perception, cognition, and memory storage in the human brain. The cryptoterrestial and time travel hypotheses also seem equally possible, especially since entities associated with sightings display earthbound biologal traits. It’s just that the extraterrestrial explanation is a whole lot sexier for most people (thank you, Hollywood).
February 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 am
Yeah I’ve been listening to Coast2Coast lately and you get the “higher probability that aliens would visit us” spiel a lot (i.e. James McCanney I think was the last one to put it forth). Or maybe it was one of those 11:11 researchers or that dude who supposedly is designing a UFO…. oh yeah talking about the heliosphere destroying the earth’s magnetic field.
Anyway the psychological angle on this is always left out. You mention that there’s no evidence for extraterrestrial life — but what about how we assume that our own types of measurements and technology would be valid or used by supposed aliens.
We’ve gone over this already but I think it’s no coincidence that George Noory and the Coast 2 Coast scene also think global warming is NOT from human technology. Just like Michio Kaku assumes that non-Western technology would develop the same as the West (even Jared Diamond implies this) — so too is it assumed that extraterrestrials would just have more advanced Western technology. It’s all so myopic to be ridiculous — but I guess anthropology is the most dreaded academic discipline, along with parapsychology. Margaret Mead — those Samoan girls lied to her for fun! haha.
February 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 am
The problem with UFO believers isn’t that they won’t consider all the possibilities, the problem is that they consider all the possibilities without discrimination. Science, in a nutshell, is all about finding flaws and that is why science has made more progress in our knowledge of the world and ourselves in the last 100 years then all other philosophies, beliefs, and religions combined have done in the entire history of humankind. That is why if you want to actually understand the UFO phenomenon you would want to take a scientific approach and that would mean a slow but steady elimination of all the possibilities that are flawed. Yet the UFO community and UFOlogists are unable to find any flaws so accept all the possibilities, hook, line, and sucker. This makes it clear that they cannot tell the difference between possibilities and actualities — and they are not the same thing. Case in point: There is no factually verifiable, logical precedence for the existence of Tulpas, therefore to deflect the UFO phenomenon off onto Tulpas is using one make believe storytale to explain another make believe storytale. The existence of Tulpas is based on fantasy, not fact, making it a plain and simple logical fallacy.
But there is one thing that makes sense and that is the ET hypothesis since many witnesses have come forth to claim to have met with the occupants of many UFOs, occupants that have claimed to be ETs. Of all these ETs, the vast majority have claimed to be from other star systems in our galaxy, and not from other dimensions, so who are we to disagree?
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Sage — I want to thank you for validating my position — the concept of “proving” is WESTERN — it’s based on “proof by contradiction” using axiomatic logic. This is what you want to do — as Hynek stated, “violation of logic is not proof.” But in nonwestern logic you can infer things as an open-ended experience without direct proof. In other words if Western logic is violated that just demonstrates the standards of Western proof do not apply — it doesn’t eliminate “tulpas”, etc.
DMT is an excellent test case. You can read the testimonies online, you can read about the FDA study — or you can just take DMT (through an ayahuasca analog). I did the later and, just as with salvia, I never saw “entities” nor “aliens” — even though I went into “DMT hyperspace” as it’s called. But I will say that DMT does verify the basic “holographic” model of reality.
Can science “prove” the holographic model? NO — because of quantum uncertainty. There’s constant arguments in physics about quantum versus classical and what types of experiments to use, etc. It’s just like UFOlogy — and also just like global warming — it’s the “end of science” as John Horgan called his best-selling book.
So what is left after proof is ruled out — the violation of Western logic remains and there does the truth lie — in nonwestern logic of pure inference. A good example is to consider Stephen Hawking’s recent book WHEN GOD CREATED THE INTEGARS — he gives the nonwestern proof for the Pythagorean Theorem — it’s a completely opposite way of viewing geometry and algebra. Yet it’s completely valid on its own terms. Another example — even more pervasive — is nonwestern music, the basis for my own model of analysis.
Sage — I dare you to call into CoastTwoCoast tonight since Michael Salla is going to be on promoting the extraterrestrial invasion. Have fun. Introduce yourself as the “sage” and be the man. haha.
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Science schmience.
February 22nd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Richard Dolan on Coasttwocoast has been on an hour and has yet to present ANY evidence of “aliens” yet he goes on and one about disclosure. Sick. He just said “there’s a lot of evidence” — but no details. C’mon. On and on about hypotheticals.
February 22nd, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Wow — Greg — Now Richard is explicitly stating that Paul Bennewitz actually saw real extraterrestrial alien or at least NOT military — “anomalies” and that he doesn’t believe your research is correct.
Again NO evidence presented on his part. All he’s done is stated that Don Menzel was actually NSA and therefore MJ12 is real.
Then he says Richard Doty was just “doing his job” and therefore justified. That’s an old canard — no personal responsility — just following orders. Had to make a living….
Whatever.
February 22nd, 2009 at 7:40 pm
O.K. I emailed Dolan so we’ll see what happens:
Hi Richard Dolan: I biked some 15 miles to the nearest library that had your “UFOs and the National Security State” book — a few summers ago. I’ve researched the UFO issue intensely because I had a very close black triangle encounter in the St. Croix river valley in Minnesota, summer of 1997. So close I could have hit the triangle with a rock. And it’s very near the 1968 Hastings sighting you describe in your black triangle paper. My parents ran the local legal newspaper and one of their workers showed me a 3-ring binder she had filled with UFO sightings in that area from the 1970s — lots of photos of spherical craft, etc. Then she told me that the area was part of a “military flight test corridor” and she said there had also been a cattle mutilation spree in that area, next to Carlos Avery Wildlife Refuge. She said one rancher actually moved since he was so freaked.
I mention this just to point out that there’s probably been a lot of secret military craft research we’re not aware of. Also you dismissed Greg Bishop’s research on Bennewitz without mentioning his name. And Nick Redfern’s “Body Snatchers in the Desert” book seems to not have had an impact on your research. Also consider the Nazi connection a bit more closely I would think.
But then George P. Hansen has outed John Alexander as unreliable — if not a military disinfo agent - and you were on C2C with him. Have you read the “Stargate Conspiracy” book by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince?
Anyway just passing along my take on the whole thing. I’ve done DMT and I think the whole alien angle is over-rated — it’s a psychological projection. This isn’t to say that the holographic model of reality isn’t true — I very much think it is true.
All the best,
drew hempel, MA
http://mothershiplanding.blogspot.com
February 22nd, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Richard Dolan is not a disclosure advocate. He doesnt think very highly of the exo politics stuff at all.
And as far as the Bennewitz thing, Doan never claims Paul saw aliens, he claims that Paul saw real UFOs. As in “anomalous phenomena in the sky” and disagrees with Greg that it was all just more explainable stuff.
Dolan may not be perfect but he certainly isnt the guy youre trying to make him out to be here. Theres many more people in this field that fit that mold PERFECTLY.
February 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 am
“I want to thank you for validating my position — the concept of ‘proving’ is WESTERN”
Firstly, even if we were to pretend that were true (it isn’t), so what? If that is the correct and proper way to know or prove something, then you can have no logical or rational objection to using it, hence the reason you have no logical or rational objection to using it.
Secondly, you can believe that if you want to but the reality is I posted absolutely nothing about Western or Eastern or any other logical fallacy of polarizing the issue as you are doing. Science is not a lifestyle or only something that Westerners do or invented. It is simply properly using logic and reason in ways that are unambiguous, consistent, and factual.
“DMT is an excellent test case”
Obviously, if one wants to know what reality is actually like, they wouldn’t want to resort to recreational drugs that are factually known to cause illusions, delusions, and hallucinations as DMT does. All your claims about DMT does is prove you know nothing about the reality of drugs, much less anything about reality itself.
“Can science ‘prove’ the holographic model? NO — because…”
…because science cannot prove what only exists in your poorly thought out imagination, science can only prove what exists in reality outside of your imagination.
“So what is left after proof is ruled out”
That is a non-sequitur. “Ruled out” is an example of a proof so what you are saying is that we can prove that proofs do not work.
“I dare you to…”
I outgrew childish taunting like that back in the third grade. If I am going to do something, it isn’t because someone dared me to or it will make me look cool or look like a man, it will be because it is the logically proper thing to do.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
http://mothershiplanding.blogspot.com/2009/02/quantum-beats-beyond-rainbow.html
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Sage: Semjase loves you.
February 23rd, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Hey Gareth — Richard sent me a nice reply stating he was just finishing a new black triangle paper arguing that they are military. His response on Roswell and Bennewitz was that there was just more to it then what Nick and Greg had uncovered. So my response was that Richard should check out qigong master Chunyi Lin since it would corroborate Dolan’s other-dimensional angle. haha. Way more to it.
February 24th, 2009 at 12:33 am
This question is for The_Sage: When did you become interested in UFO’s and why?
February 24th, 2009 at 11:27 am
“Semjase loves you”
Doghouses don’t have wings…your point was?
“When did you become interested in UFO’s and why?”
I first became interested in UFOs when I read a Popular Science article about them when I was about seven years old. The reason was because (1) I didn’t know any better, and (2) because some of the stories told of them were compelling, even if they weren’t true.
February 24th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
“The reason was because (1) I didn’t know any better, and (2) because some of the stories told of them were compelling, even if they weren’t true.”
Do you then regret ever showing an interest in this topic?
February 25th, 2009 at 4:45 am
I’m curious about this statement, Greg-
” When the popular mind begins to accept different concepts of time, causality and human cognition, bolstered by repeatable and easily demonstrated experiments…”
mainly the last part about repeatable
and easily demonstrated…While I
accept and support the notion of
mutilple explanations for the UFO
phemonena, one of the things that
does tend to frustrate me is that
they are generally not subject
to experiment, much less repeatable
results. I do believe the phenomena
is worthy of study, regardless of
the nature of its reality.
So, what are some of these experiments?
February 25th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Curious,
I propose that “tulpas” may be created unconsciously as well as by intention. You can’t control your dreams very much, so I don’t think most people have any idea what is shaping anomalous occurrences in the local area of a sighting either.
Yes, I know, a lot of assumptions, but the ETH is the biggest one!
February 25th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
purrlgurrl,
Thank you! If more people look into these other possibilities, there may be someone or group of people who stumble on a doorway to understanding. Mavericks often change things for all of us.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Drew,
It’s just like that movie “The Arrival” where aliens are warming up the planet so that they can live here.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Sage,
Just musing on things. Musing sometimes creates inspiration, which might be verified by experience/ experiment. Science can’t deal with UFOs yet, so I’m musing on other themes.
Maybe the contactees were right, or perhaps they (and abductees) are forming the experience into something that makes sense to them, or the “aliens” are.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Drew,
I never wrote that he saw ONLY secret tests, I just guessed (confirmed by some of the mundane nature of what he filmed and saw) that most of his interactions were tests of UAVs, coded signals, and laser communications.
Richard seems to attribute more to me than I intended. I’ll have to get in touch with him.
February 28th, 2009 at 10:44 am
RP,
I do not regret getting involved with UFOs. Anything that interests humans is that which tells us something about how the human mind works. I’ve learned a lot about how the human mind works (or doesn’t) from studying UFOs.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Greg,
Am I to interpret your response as you are not being serious about this?
On a related thought, if UFOs were “tulpas”, then they would be no different then a dream (other then context) and therefore they could be interpreted in much the same way dreams could be…
Carl Jung thought of UFOs as being symbolic of wholeness and since UFOs are physically so elusive, this seems to imply that wholeness eludes us as a species.
Continuing the Jung theme, the ETs (or visitors) are any ideas alien to our conscious minds (not necessarily to our subconscious or unconscious minds). That is why ETs are sometime viewed as from another dimension. More specifically, the ETs represent the next step up in consciousness. In this sense, the ETs will never stop visiting us and being elusive for as long as humans exist.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Sage,
I was being serious. Maybe a little bit playfully serious, but not ironic or dismissive.
If SOME UFOs are “tulpas,” then do the externalized subconscious images make themselves known to others in the vicinity who are not “dreaming the same dream” as the percipient? Maybe. Is this an example of folie a’deux? Maybe. Is it externalized matter ordered by local consciousness? Maybe.
I agree completely with your last two paragraphs.
March 1st, 2009 at 4:51 am
Again referring back to Carl Jung, the further away we get from the conscious mind, the less personal and more collective the contents become. If tulpas are unconscious projections, then the contents would often (but not necessarily always) be externalized collectively, i.e. — in a group setting. That mental projections can leave physical traces was something that interested Jung and his investigations into this led him to conclude in the existence of a thing called the “psychoid” — the link between mind and matter. A well known example of the psychoid in action is synchronicity.
March 1st, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Carl Jung thought of UFOs as being symbolic of wholeness and since UFOs are physically so elusive, this seems to imply that wholeness eludes us as a species.
Taken into that context, maybe the modern myth of the alien-human hybrid is a symbol of the union between the subconscious desires with the conscious mind.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 am
“Maybe the modern myth of the alien-human hybrid is a symbol of the union between the subconscious desires with the conscious mind”
It still wouldn’t be subconscious or unconscious then. In dreams, humans do not symbolize consciousness.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:33 am
“It still wouldn’t be subconscious or unconscious then. In dreams, humans do not symbolize consciousness.”
Yes, but I think we can all agree that the events told by abductees are happening in a state different than dreaming; at least, normal dreaming.
So maybe those tulpas discussed above is some sort of day dreaming, where somone externalize their dreams in the conscious reality of others.
Anyway, my point was that maybe when you join your subconscious desires with your waking consciousness, then something new arises. And we come back to one of the most basic elements of the abduction phenomenon: the triad. The union of two opposite forces through a third element that gives balance and creates something new.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
“I think we can all agree…”
Don’t be so presumptuous.
“So maybe those tulpas discussed above is some sort of day dreaming, where somone externalize their dreams in the conscious reality of others”
That isn’t what was being discussed. What was being discussed was the link between mind and matter. That link can occur when dreaming or when awake. Of course, if Tulpas only appeared when we were dreaming, they would be personal instead of collective. If Tulpas occurred when we were day dreaming, they would be conscious ideas that made sense instead of unconscious ideas that don’t make sense.
“Anyway, my point was that maybe when you join your subconscious desires with your waking consciousness, then something new arises”
Then again, maybe not.
“And we come back to one of the most basic elements of the abduction phenomenon: the triad. The union of two opposite forces through a third element that gives balance and creates something new”
The mind does not create balance but imbalance. Opposite extremes wouldn’t exist if the mind were prone to balance instead of imbalance.