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	<title>Comments on: Mac &#038; the Face</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/12/22/mac-the-face/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/12/22/mac-the-face/</link>
	<description>UFO News, Views, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The_Sage</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/12/22/mac-the-face/#comment-7477</link>
		<dc:creator>The_Sage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1684#comment-7477</guid>
		<description>"Sage, you’re missing my point. Pure scientific data collection is being interpreted through a very flawed filtering process which consistently throws out ‘anomalous data’ that doesn’t fit conventional scientific(and political) thinking during the time that the data was was collected"

And you're missing my point, crgintx, there is no "anomalous data"; the data is perfectly normal. There has only been the anomalous interpretations of the data.

"For instance..."

There is no instance you can name that will prove the Mars Face exists outside of your imagination -- and that is all that is important here and it is exactly what you have yet to do. It is a logical fallacy to assume that if someone made one mistake in the past, that everything they do from then on will also be a mistake, yet that is exactly what you are trying to do with your, "For instance..." argument.

"The Believers do have a valid point about the fact that every piece of not-so-raw data is coming through the National Reconnaissance Office first before NASA sends it out"

That is then contradicted by the fact that NASA did not throw away any of its data about the alleged Mars Face, when according to the Believers "logic", it would have been in NASA's best interests to throw it away.

"I’m saying there are far worse ways to spend tax payers money than investigate Cydonia"

And I'm saying that just because investigating Cydonia is the lesser of two evils, does not change the fact that it is still an evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Sage, you’re missing my point. Pure scientific data collection is being interpreted through a very flawed filtering process which consistently throws out ‘anomalous data’ that doesn’t fit conventional scientific(and political) thinking during the time that the data was was collected&#8221;</p>
<p>And you&#8217;re missing my point, crgintx, there is no &#8220;anomalous data&#8221;; the data is perfectly normal. There has only been the anomalous interpretations of the data.</p>
<p>&#8220;For instance&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>There is no instance you can name that will prove the Mars Face exists outside of your imagination &#8212; and that is all that is important here and it is exactly what you have yet to do. It is a logical fallacy to assume that if someone made one mistake in the past, that everything they do from then on will also be a mistake, yet that is exactly what you are trying to do with your, &#8220;For instance&#8230;&#8221; argument.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Believers do have a valid point about the fact that every piece of not-so-raw data is coming through the National Reconnaissance Office first before NASA sends it out&#8221;</p>
<p>That is then contradicted by the fact that NASA did not throw away any of its data about the alleged Mars Face, when according to the Believers &#8220;logic&#8221;, it would have been in NASA&#8217;s best interests to throw it away.</p>
<p>&#8220;I’m saying there are far worse ways to spend tax payers money than investigate Cydonia&#8221;</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m saying that just because investigating Cydonia is the lesser of two evils, does not change the fact that it is still an evil.</p>
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		<title>By: crgintx</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/12/22/mac-the-face/#comment-7472</link>
		<dc:creator>crgintx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1684#comment-7472</guid>
		<description>Sage, you're missing my point.  Pure scientific data collection is being interpreted through a very flawed filtering process which consistently throws out 'anomalous data' that doesn't fit conventional scientific(and political) thinking during the time that the data was was collected.  For instance, almost everything that was conjectured about civilization in the Americas 30 years ago is being tossed out these days.  The amount of evidence about when humans actually got to the Americas has been pushed back by over 2000 years to well before the end of the last Ice Age ended.   Satellite imagery is showing that not only was the vast jungles of Central and South America were filled with interconnected town-size villages and that Native Americans were trading goods as far and wide as anything the Euro's were capable of at the time of the European invasion of the Americas.   20-50 years from now with advances in computing power and physical property measurement, much of we hold dear scientifically from the late 20th/early 21st century will seem as hopelessly incorrect as is scientific thought  from the 19th century is today.  

I think the 'face on Mars' is for now an interesting but natural formation however the Believers do have a valid point about the fact that every piece of not-so-raw data is coming through the National Reconnaissance Office first before NASA sends it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sage, you&#8217;re missing my point.  Pure scientific data collection is being interpreted through a very flawed filtering process which consistently throws out &#8216;anomalous data&#8217; that doesn&#8217;t fit conventional scientific(and political) thinking during the time that the data was was collected.  For instance, almost everything that was conjectured about civilization in the Americas 30 years ago is being tossed out these days.  The amount of evidence about when humans actually got to the Americas has been pushed back by over 2000 years to well before the end of the last Ice Age ended.   Satellite imagery is showing that not only was the vast jungles of Central and South America were filled with interconnected town-size villages and that Native Americans were trading goods as far and wide as anything the Euro&#8217;s were capable of at the time of the European invasion of the Americas.   20-50 years from now with advances in computing power and physical property measurement, much of we hold dear scientifically from the late 20th/early 21st century will seem as hopelessly incorrect as is scientific thought  from the 19th century is today.  </p>
<p>I think the &#8216;face on Mars&#8217; is for now an interesting but natural formation however the Believers do have a valid point about the fact that every piece of not-so-raw data is coming through the National Reconnaissance Office first before NASA sends it out.</p>
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		<title>By: red pill junkie</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/12/22/mac-the-face/#comment-7465</link>
		<dc:creator>red pill junkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1684#comment-7465</guid>
		<description>Sage, I'm saying there are far worse ways to spend tax payers money than investigate Cydonia. That's all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sage, I&#8217;m saying there are far worse ways to spend tax payers money than investigate Cydonia. That&#8217;s all.</p>
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		<title>By: The_Sage</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/12/22/mac-the-face/#comment-7463</link>
		<dc:creator>The_Sage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1684#comment-7463</guid>
		<description>"How can you judge artificiality when the only known patterns of artificiality are those created by humans themselves?"

How are you able? If you already know the Mars Face is artificial, why investigate the matter any further because you already KNOW and have PROOF that it is artificial? If the believers could judge artificiality, they would not have to request that NASA investigate it any further for them on their behalf. Of course, NASA will do no such thing until for once, the believers can tell us how they define artificiality.

-------------------------

"I bet it’s less than the cost of a single day of war in Iraq"

What you are saying is that if it is okay for the American Government to waste taxpayers money in Iraq, it would be okay for NASA to waste money on the Mars Face, but I say use some common sense and do not waste hard earned taxpayers money on neither place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How can you judge artificiality when the only known patterns of artificiality are those created by humans themselves?&#8221;</p>
<p>How are you able? If you already know the Mars Face is artificial, why investigate the matter any further because you already KNOW and have PROOF that it is artificial? If the believers could judge artificiality, they would not have to request that NASA investigate it any further for them on their behalf. Of course, NASA will do no such thing until for once, the believers can tell us how they define artificiality.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>&#8220;I bet it’s less than the cost of a single day of war in Iraq&#8221;</p>
<p>What you are saying is that if it is okay for the American Government to waste taxpayers money in Iraq, it would be okay for NASA to waste money on the Mars Face, but I say use some common sense and do not waste hard earned taxpayers money on neither place.</p>
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		<title>By: red pill junkie</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/12/22/mac-the-face/#comment-7462</link>
		<dc:creator>red pill junkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1684#comment-7462</guid>
		<description>Whatever the cost of taking a closer look at Cydonia with the already orbiting equipment, I bet it's less than the cost of a single day of war in Iraq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever the cost of taking a closer look at Cydonia with the already orbiting equipment, I bet it&#8217;s less than the cost of a single day of war in Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: crgintx</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/12/22/mac-the-face/#comment-7452</link>
		<dc:creator>crgintx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1684#comment-7452</guid>
		<description>Scientism wouldn't know what's artificial or not if it was biting them in the ass.  How can you judge artificiality when the only known patterns of artificiality are those created by humans themselves?  While the idea that other intelligent life forms are already existing on Earth(ie insects, primates, whales) is finally beginning to dawn on the scientific community, they have simply have no other known example of artificiality to compare it with.  We may literally be awash with alien artifice and not be able to recognize it.   For example, viruses behave in ways that we simply can't figure out yet but they seem more and more like an engineered life form rather than one that occurs more predictably like bacterium or molds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scientism wouldn&#8217;t know what&#8217;s artificial or not if it was biting them in the ass.  How can you judge artificiality when the only known patterns of artificiality are those created by humans themselves?  While the idea that other intelligent life forms are already existing on Earth(ie insects, primates, whales) is finally beginning to dawn on the scientific community, they have simply have no other known example of artificiality to compare it with.  We may literally be awash with alien artifice and not be able to recognize it.   For example, viruses behave in ways that we simply can&#8217;t figure out yet but they seem more and more like an engineered life form rather than one that occurs more predictably like bacterium or molds.</p>
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		<title>By: The_Sage</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/12/22/mac-the-face/#comment-7451</link>
		<dc:creator>The_Sage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1684#comment-7451</guid>
		<description>If we are going to test Mars for artificiality, why stop there? Why not test Mars for hyperdimensional physics or Star Trek? Maybe photon torpedoes and phasors exist on Mars too, but we will never know if we don't test for them too, right?

Let's conduct a little science here on our own called objective observation and logical thinking. Start by downloading a photo of the Cydonia region from NASA or JPL, looking at the photo, and telling us what you see. Now to be scientific about it, limit your descriptions only to what you actually see. Since facts speak for themselves and never need interpretation, discard any and all interpretations you give it, leaving only the facts behind. What you will find is a planet devoid of Faces because there physically isn't enough resolution to the photos to base that claim on. Look, just because something looks like an artificial Face does not mean therefore it be an artificial Face, it just means you have a healthy imagination and you would be good at making up stories for a psychologist during a Rorschach Test. If we have to start taking that nonsense seriously, then what about all the other Faces on Mars such as the ones listed at http://www.tampabayskeptics.org/Mars_morefaces.html? By the time NASA and JPL finish "scientifically" investigating all the other Faces on Mars, the missions will have all expired and we will have learned nothing at all useful about the rest of the real Mars.

Yet there are those of you who do not care about things like objective observation, logical thinking, or scientific reasoning. You would much rather see us waste millions of dollars of taxpayers money by pointing billions of dollars of equipment and concentrating millions of dollars of NASA and JPL's resources onto one little area of Mars, simply because some people subscribe to the self-delusion that they know more than all the highly degree'd and trained scientists at NASA and JPL -- combined! Don't they know that NASA cannot see the Face because NASA hasn't had the training in Mars Face Recognition like they have?

I am capable of telling the difference between imagination and reality so I say let NASA and JPL do what they do best -- and what they do best is not what Mars Face believers do best...practice science. Not one person who has ever supported the Face on Mars claim has even remotely demonstrated a scientifically valid and educated argument to support their claim -- not one! This whole face on Mars craze was started by one man with an over-active imagination who not only thought he could see a Face on Mars, but hyperdimensional physics, and a whole entire city. Should we verify that nonsense too? What next? Maybe we won't ever be able to see the girders and beams used to construct the Face or the hyperdimensional physics hieroglyphics or the city of Cydonia because the ETs could resort to cloaking devices by then! Better waste more taxpayer's money by having NASA and JPL investigate the use of cloaking devices on Mars, just because it is a "scientific possibility" and it is "scientific" just because believers say so. Imagination is limitless but reality has limits so it is time to limit this Face on Mars nonsense instead of gullibly promoting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we are going to test Mars for artificiality, why stop there? Why not test Mars for hyperdimensional physics or Star Trek? Maybe photon torpedoes and phasors exist on Mars too, but we will never know if we don&#8217;t test for them too, right?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s conduct a little science here on our own called objective observation and logical thinking. Start by downloading a photo of the Cydonia region from NASA or JPL, looking at the photo, and telling us what you see. Now to be scientific about it, limit your descriptions only to what you actually see. Since facts speak for themselves and never need interpretation, discard any and all interpretations you give it, leaving only the facts behind. What you will find is a planet devoid of Faces because there physically isn&#8217;t enough resolution to the photos to base that claim on. Look, just because something looks like an artificial Face does not mean therefore it be an artificial Face, it just means you have a healthy imagination and you would be good at making up stories for a psychologist during a Rorschach Test. If we have to start taking that nonsense seriously, then what about all the other Faces on Mars such as the ones listed at <a href="http://www.tampabayskeptics.org/Mars_morefaces.html?" rel="nofollow">http://www.tampabayskeptics.org/Mars_morefaces.html?</a> By the time NASA and JPL finish &#8220;scientifically&#8221; investigating all the other Faces on Mars, the missions will have all expired and we will have learned nothing at all useful about the rest of the real Mars.</p>
<p>Yet there are those of you who do not care about things like objective observation, logical thinking, or scientific reasoning. You would much rather see us waste millions of dollars of taxpayers money by pointing billions of dollars of equipment and concentrating millions of dollars of NASA and JPL&#8217;s resources onto one little area of Mars, simply because some people subscribe to the self-delusion that they know more than all the highly degree&#8217;d and trained scientists at NASA and JPL &#8212; combined! Don&#8217;t they know that NASA cannot see the Face because NASA hasn&#8217;t had the training in Mars Face Recognition like they have?</p>
<p>I am capable of telling the difference between imagination and reality so I say let NASA and JPL do what they do best &#8212; and what they do best is not what Mars Face believers do best&#8230;practice science. Not one person who has ever supported the Face on Mars claim has even remotely demonstrated a scientifically valid and educated argument to support their claim &#8212; not one! This whole face on Mars craze was started by one man with an over-active imagination who not only thought he could see a Face on Mars, but hyperdimensional physics, and a whole entire city. Should we verify that nonsense too? What next? Maybe we won&#8217;t ever be able to see the girders and beams used to construct the Face or the hyperdimensional physics hieroglyphics or the city of Cydonia because the ETs could resort to cloaking devices by then! Better waste more taxpayer&#8217;s money by having NASA and JPL investigate the use of cloaking devices on Mars, just because it is a &#8220;scientific possibility&#8221; and it is &#8220;scientific&#8221; just because believers say so. Imagination is limitless but reality has limits so it is time to limit this Face on Mars nonsense instead of gullibly promoting it.</p>
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