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	<title>Comments on: MJ-12 Existence Confirmed (sort of)</title>
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	<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/</link>
	<description>UFO News, Views, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kenn Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6589</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenn Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 04:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6589</guid>
		<description>As Cat often says, "For FIFTY DOLLARS!!!"

")

(just read about it in S&#38;S II)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Cat often says, &#8220;For FIFTY DOLLARS!!!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;)</p>
<p>(just read about it in S&amp;S II)</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6580</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6580</guid>
		<description>Kenn,

Sure, it may very likely have existed, but was MJ-12 an official UFO working group, and was that its only purpose? That's the question which I still think needs answering.

The reason that I "sort of forgot" about the Douglas-Moise letter is, as I remember, that the way you explained it was either confusing to me or the case seemed to be weak based on what you told me. Perhaps I didn't get all of it properly.

Personally, I'm not debunking anything, except things that seem to be bunk. If there is a good case, then it's not "bunk." Many issues reside between extremes as well.

Perhaps I can persuade you to write this up as a guest column?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kenn,</p>
<p>Sure, it may very likely have existed, but was MJ-12 an official UFO working group, and was that its only purpose? That&#8217;s the question which I still think needs answering.</p>
<p>The reason that I &#8220;sort of forgot&#8221; about the Douglas-Moise letter is, as I remember, that the way you explained it was either confusing to me or the case seemed to be weak based on what you told me. Perhaps I didn&#8217;t get all of it properly.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m not debunking anything, except things that seem to be bunk. If there is a good case, then it&#8217;s not &#8220;bunk.&#8221; Many issues reside between extremes as well.</p>
<p>Perhaps I can persuade you to write this up as a guest column?</p>
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		<title>By: Kenn Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6578</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenn Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 09:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6578</guid>
		<description>That's  my point there, Greg. Here's the proof of the existence of MJ12 and you just sorta forgot about it. I don't know, maybe that would have been the best response for a Nazi in Holland, but you'd think he might first prove to his satisfaction that the mechanism didn't work. Yes, the debate started in Jim's book--which Jim DeMeo may reprint if Jim can ever find the time to do a decent rewrite--and he put up some resistance to my initial analysis. I have brought it up in magazine articles and books since and the case only gets stronger the more you look at it. Too bad it gets sucked into the morass of debunking all these latter-day bogus MJ 12 docs, because the real historic debate about MJ12 has to begin there, with proof that even rigorous historical analysis cannot refute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s  my point there, Greg. Here&#8217;s the proof of the existence of MJ12 and you just sorta forgot about it. I don&#8217;t know, maybe that would have been the best response for a Nazi in Holland, but you&#8217;d think he might first prove to his satisfaction that the mechanism didn&#8217;t work. Yes, the debate started in Jim&#8217;s book&#8211;which Jim DeMeo may reprint if Jim can ever find the time to do a decent rewrite&#8211;and he put up some resistance to my initial analysis. I have brought it up in magazine articles and books since and the case only gets stronger the more you look at it. Too bad it gets sucked into the morass of debunking all these latter-day bogus MJ 12 docs, because the real historic debate about MJ12 has to begin there, with proof that even rigorous historical analysis cannot refute.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6568</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 09:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6568</guid>
		<description>Kenn,

Didn't Jim Martin originally publish info on that Douglas letter out in his Reich book? You've explained it to me, but I've forgotten the details.

I don't think UFO believers want to deliberately keep this issue in a fog.

In any case, I pointed out (in the text of the post and the comments) that MJ-12 has never been conclusively proven as an official UFO working group, so maybe it had little or nothing to do with the subject.

I suspect that the 20-year furor over MJ-12 was started with a deliberate smokescreen disinfo program to get UFO researchers fighting over something that may ultimately be a dead end--sort of like the story of an intricate (and useless) mechanism that was deliberately left on a beach in Holland by British intelligence during the WWII occupation in order to waste the time of the Nazis who would find it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kenn,</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t Jim Martin originally publish info on that Douglas letter out in his Reich book? You&#8217;ve explained it to me, but I&#8217;ve forgotten the details.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think UFO believers want to deliberately keep this issue in a fog.</p>
<p>In any case, I pointed out (in the text of the post and the comments) that MJ-12 has never been conclusively proven as an official UFO working group, so maybe it had little or nothing to do with the subject.</p>
<p>I suspect that the 20-year furor over MJ-12 was started with a deliberate smokescreen disinfo program to get UFO researchers fighting over something that may ultimately be a dead end&#8211;sort of like the story of an intricate (and useless) mechanism that was deliberately left on a beach in Holland by British intelligence during the WWII occupation in order to waste the time of the Nazis who would find it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenn Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6566</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenn Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 05:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6566</guid>
		<description>I really resent the fact that people ignore that I have demonstrated time and again the authenticity of the Cutler-Twining memo by it juxtaposition with the Moise (Reich) letter in the Lew Douglas archives. It's as close to absolute proof of the existence of MJ12 as anyone's ever going to find. Even testimony like this doesn't match the objective triangulation of evidence of the C-T and the Moise. The so-called skeptics want to keep this issue in a fog as much as the UFO believers. Oh well. I go over it again in my next book, Secret and Suppressed II, out in the fall from Feral House.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really resent the fact that people ignore that I have demonstrated time and again the authenticity of the Cutler-Twining memo by it juxtaposition with the Moise (Reich) letter in the Lew Douglas archives. It&#8217;s as close to absolute proof of the existence of MJ12 as anyone&#8217;s ever going to find. Even testimony like this doesn&#8217;t match the objective triangulation of evidence of the C-T and the Moise. The so-called skeptics want to keep this issue in a fog as much as the UFO believers. Oh well. I go over it again in my next book, Secret and Suppressed II, out in the fall from Feral House.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6563</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6563</guid>
		<description>mouse,

I read that news. Julia Child was also mentioned as an OSS operative. This was common knowledge in the "conspiracy" community for years, and Miles Copeland wrote a book about his OSS/ CIA experiences, I think.

If there was an MJ-12, it was probably a project that had little to do with UFOs, but enough to keep researchers guessing for years while those who are concerned with national security move on to other matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mouse,</p>
<p>I read that news. Julia Child was also mentioned as an OSS operative. This was common knowledge in the &#8220;conspiracy&#8221; community for years, and Miles Copeland wrote a book about his OSS/ CIA experiences, I think.</p>
<p>If there was an MJ-12, it was probably a project that had little to do with UFOs, but enough to keep researchers guessing for years while those who are concerned with national security move on to other matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6562</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6562</guid>
		<description>RPJ,

Maybe the "real" agency was or still is a loose confederation of insiders who operate as an informal think tank. That way, there is no record of their doings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RPJ,</p>
<p>Maybe the &#8220;real&#8221; agency was or still is a loose confederation of insiders who operate as an informal think tank. That way, there is no record of their doings.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6561</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6561</guid>
		<description>Ben,

I'm not convinced either, but I thought that it was newsworthy. Maybe someone (even Mr. Parks) will follow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not convinced either, but I thought that it was newsworthy. Maybe someone (even Mr. Parks) will follow up.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6560</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6560</guid>
		<description>Roger,

Perhaps, but I don't know if anyone will bother tracking down those people, and second-hand information may be too far away from the original source. It seems that a lot of aspects of the UFO subject  are often too weird to believe, or that there isn't enough evidence to convince many people. It's a bad conundrum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger,</p>
<p>Perhaps, but I don&#8217;t know if anyone will bother tracking down those people, and second-hand information may be too far away from the original source. It seems that a lot of aspects of the UFO subject  are often too weird to believe, or that there isn&#8217;t enough evidence to convince many people. It&#8217;s a bad conundrum.</p>
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		<title>By: uth</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/08/14/mj-12-ufo-confirmed/#comment-6554</link>
		<dc:creator>uth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/?p=1451#comment-6554</guid>
		<description>I agree that this admission doesn't amount to much.  He may be confusing MJ12 with some other project for all we know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that this admission doesn&#8217;t amount to much.  He may be confusing MJ12 with some other project for all we know.</p>
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