Comments on: Alien Worlds: Issue 2 http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/04/18/alien-worlds-issue-2/ UFO News, Views, and More Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:17:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Nick Redfern http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/04/18/alien-worlds-issue-2/#comment-5504 Nick Redfern Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:20:57 +0000 http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/alien-worlds-issue-2/#comment-5504 Paul I'd have to disagree re Doty's impact. Having been there at the time, I well recall that in the 80s there was *massive* interest (for years) in the whole "New Mexico Underground Base"; Dulce; Bennewtiz; Falcon, Moore, MJ12 saga etc. And that all then blossomed into the darker conspiracy stuff like Bill Cooper etc (which took on a huge life of its own) - all of which can be pretty much traced back to the roots of AFOSI and the Bennewitz caper. I think it depends how we define what you describe as him being of "no real significance to the study of the phenomenon itself." In the literal sense of "the phenomenon" meaning UFO encounters and sightings, I would agree. But, as Greg shows in his Project Beta book - and as per my comments above re the way in which the Bennewitz stories were endorsed and discussed in Ufology for years - there's good evidence of a significant impact on Ufology, as a body. He may not have played a significant role in terms of the literal "study of the phenomenon." But the impact of AFOSI's disinfo re Bennewitz definitely did play a hugely significant role in influencing 80s Ufology, the mind-set of many of the people in it, the magazines etc. Indeed, for several years you could scarcely pick up a magazine without hearing about dark goings-on at Dulce, secret ET-Human alliances - all traceable to AFOSI. There was a huge vibe around all that stuff for years, and it kept many researchers busy. Of course, the UFO *phenomenon* (as a mystery) and *Ufology* (as a loose-knit body of individuals, groups, etc) are very different arenas! Paul

I’d have to disagree re Doty’s impact.

Having been there at the time, I well recall that in the 80s there was *massive* interest (for years) in the whole “New Mexico Underground Base”; Dulce; Bennewtiz; Falcon, Moore, MJ12 saga etc.

And that all then blossomed into the darker conspiracy stuff like Bill Cooper etc (which took on a huge life of its own) - all of which can be pretty much traced back to the roots of AFOSI and the Bennewitz caper.

I think it depends how we define what you describe as him being of “no real significance to the study of the phenomenon itself.”

In the literal sense of “the phenomenon” meaning UFO encounters and sightings, I would agree.

But, as Greg shows in his Project Beta book - and as per my comments above re the way in which the Bennewitz stories were endorsed and discussed in Ufology for years - there’s good evidence of a significant impact on Ufology, as a body.

He may not have played a significant role in terms of the literal “study of the phenomenon.” But the impact of AFOSI’s disinfo re Bennewitz definitely did play a hugely significant role in influencing 80s Ufology, the mind-set of many of the people in it, the magazines etc.

Indeed, for several years you could scarcely pick up a magazine without hearing about dark goings-on at Dulce, secret ET-Human alliances - all traceable to AFOSI. There was a huge vibe around all that stuff for years, and it kept many researchers busy.

Of course, the UFO *phenomenon* (as a mystery) and *Ufology* (as a loose-knit body of individuals, groups, etc) are very different arenas!

]]> By: paulkimball http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/04/18/alien-worlds-issue-2/#comment-5503 paulkimball Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:52:48 +0000 http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/alien-worlds-issue-2/#comment-5503 I thought the interview with Lundgren about Doty was interesting, but I think he and Stuart seem to credit Doty with a far greater impact on ufology than he probably deserves. To me, he was like a government-sponsored Billy Meier, mucking things up with lies and distractions, but ultimately of no real significance to the study of the phenomenon itself. I also sincerely doubt that Doty is still involved in government work - rather, I think he misses the "action", so he's still trying to insert himself in it. Frankly, he comes across as lonely and pathetic... which is a fitting fate for a man who fucked Paul Bennewitz. I have no sympathy, either, for Doty's claims that he was just a soldier doing his job... we've heard that excuse before, and it doesn't wash - not is it justificable under the law if and when you break the law. I agree wholeheartedly about Brittany, who has a bright future in ufology. You'll get to meet her at Retro UFO! Paul I thought the interview with Lundgren about Doty was interesting, but I think he and Stuart seem to credit Doty with a far greater impact on ufology than he probably deserves. To me, he was like a government-sponsored Billy Meier, mucking things up with lies and distractions, but ultimately of no real significance to the study of the phenomenon itself. I also sincerely doubt that Doty is still involved in government work - rather, I think he misses the “action”, so he’s still trying to insert himself in it. Frankly, he comes across as lonely and pathetic… which is a fitting fate for a man who fucked Paul Bennewitz. I have no sympathy, either, for Doty’s claims that he was just a soldier doing his job… we’ve heard that excuse before, and it doesn’t wash - not is it justificable under the law if and when you break the law.

I agree wholeheartedly about Brittany, who has a bright future in ufology. You’ll get to meet her at Retro UFO!

Paul

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