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	<title>Comments on: Steiger on Ancient Worlds</title>
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	<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/01/07/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/</link>
	<description>UFO News, Views, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 03:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: drew hempel</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/01/07/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4470</link>
		<dc:creator>drew hempel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4470</guid>
		<description>spookyparadigm -- thanks for the free "tokens"! haha.  I skimmed one of her articles on "tokens and counting" -- fascinating.  Just shows that abstract number as math has always had a commercial connection -- there's no "pure" science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spookyparadigm &#8212; thanks for the free &#8220;tokens&#8221;! haha.  I skimmed one of her articles on &#8220;tokens and counting&#8221; &#8212; fascinating.  Just shows that abstract number as math has always had a commercial connection &#8212; there&#8217;s no &#8220;pure&#8221; science.</p>
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		<title>By: spookyparadigm</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/01/07/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4462</link>
		<dc:creator>spookyparadigm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4462</guid>
		<description>Quetzalcoatl is Nahua (it predates the Aztecs in other Nahua cultures of the area after 600 AD or so) and the concept is substantially older than that, we just don't know for certain the language of the people that depicted the feathered serpent thousands of years earlier.

Viracocha, I don't know as much about, but he is associated with the highland lake Titicaca, where he either just appears or emerges from the water. As with Quetzalcoatl, Viracocha is just the last name given to the deity concept in a long line of cultures, and as with the Feathered Serpent, there are a number of variant stories of its nature and origin.

As I said, that isn't enough, just a substantial footnote but not much more. The rest of my points, however, are the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quetzalcoatl is Nahua (it predates the Aztecs in other Nahua cultures of the area after 600 AD or so) and the concept is substantially older than that, we just don&#8217;t know for certain the language of the people that depicted the feathered serpent thousands of years earlier.</p>
<p>Viracocha, I don&#8217;t know as much about, but he is associated with the highland lake Titicaca, where he either just appears or emerges from the water. As with Quetzalcoatl, Viracocha is just the last name given to the deity concept in a long line of cultures, and as with the Feathered Serpent, there are a number of variant stories of its nature and origin.</p>
<p>As I said, that isn&#8217;t enough, just a substantial footnote but not much more. The rest of my points, however, are the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Richelle Hawks</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/01/07/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4461</link>
		<dc:creator>Richelle Hawks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4461</guid>
		<description>Quetzalcoatl is indeed an Aztec, not Incan deity/character, but inca mythology has Viracocha, which has similarities--perhaps steiger means to speak about the myth in general terms, or accidentally/momentarily confused aztec/inca; it's not grounds for complete dismissal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quetzalcoatl is indeed an Aztec, not Incan deity/character, but inca mythology has Viracocha, which has similarities&#8211;perhaps steiger means to speak about the myth in general terms, or accidentally/momentarily confused aztec/inca; it&#8217;s not grounds for complete dismissal.</p>
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		<title>By: spookyparadigm</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/01/07/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4454</link>
		<dc:creator>spookyparadigm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4454</guid>
		<description>Never mind that Quetzalcoatl is a Mexican deity (putting him as far from the Inka Empire as Cairo is from central Poland), Quetzalcoatl and similar feathered serpents have a long and varied history in Mesoamerica with associations to Venus and parts in the earliest actions of creation, before humans. None of which, as far as I am aware, having to do with a flying silver egg.

As for the development of settled life in the Middle East, it was a process that occurred over thousands of years. One intriguing example is that of the work of Denise Schmandt-Besserat, who has cataloged the development of information technology and writing in that region. Writing, that most civilized of traits in an urban society, did not spring up over night. Instead, Schmandt-Besserat demonstrates a lineage of about 4000 years from the use of clay tokens in Neolithic villages, to the use of more complicated record keeping that diverged into cylinder seals and clay containers for tokens. These containers were eventually flattened, and the tokens impressed on the clay, until people (the earliest scribes) began to simply make marks that looked like the tokens, and cuneiform writing developed from there. A technological history that was not directed, ended up with several types of technology, and began to change with greater pace when other social and economic conditions (the rise of the temples as centers of urban life and as land-owners who rented to tenants) changed.

No aquatic civilization bringers necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never mind that Quetzalcoatl is a Mexican deity (putting him as far from the Inka Empire as Cairo is from central Poland), Quetzalcoatl and similar feathered serpents have a long and varied history in Mesoamerica with associations to Venus and parts in the earliest actions of creation, before humans. None of which, as far as I am aware, having to do with a flying silver egg.</p>
<p>As for the development of settled life in the Middle East, it was a process that occurred over thousands of years. One intriguing example is that of the work of Denise Schmandt-Besserat, who has cataloged the development of information technology and writing in that region. Writing, that most civilized of traits in an urban society, did not spring up over night. Instead, Schmandt-Besserat demonstrates a lineage of about 4000 years from the use of clay tokens in Neolithic villages, to the use of more complicated record keeping that diverged into cylinder seals and clay containers for tokens. These containers were eventually flattened, and the tokens impressed on the clay, until people (the earliest scribes) began to simply make marks that looked like the tokens, and cuneiform writing developed from there. A technological history that was not directed, ended up with several types of technology, and began to change with greater pace when other social and economic conditions (the rise of the temples as centers of urban life and as land-owners who rented to tenants) changed.</p>
<p>No aquatic civilization bringers necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: The_Sage</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/01/07/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4443</link>
		<dc:creator>The_Sage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4443</guid>
		<description>"The fossil tracks of both bare and shod feet of a decidedly humanoid impression"

It is not honest to speak of anomalies in terms as though they were indisputable facts and therefore have been accepted by the scientific community as fact, when the opposite is the truth.

"Although the discovery of these footprints in the stones of time are hardly rare..."

But they must be rare in order to be called anomalies. There are only eight tiny little sites in the whole entire world that a few individuals believe could contain evidence of pre-human footprints of an advanced civilization, yet absolutely no sites containing fossilized bones -- that alone is an anomaly, so you have one anomaly created by the other, one on top of the other.

"Geologists, archaeologists, and anthropologists by and large refuse to accept such fossil evidence at face value because to do so would be to acknowledge that humans or some other bipedal humanoid or hominid creature lived in the earliest years of hypothetical evolutionary history"

Define "face value". It would not be proper science for a scientist to accept any anomaly at "face value" because anomalies are red flags indicating either something is wrong with the data or the interpretation of the data. In this instance we have two anomalies on top of each other, further exabberating the problem. Furthermore, unlike any other belief or philosophy ever developed, science has been the most open-minded of them all and would be the first to accept that the idea of pre-humans -- if it can be proven outside of the poorly told storytales about them...

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds
and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is
sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion" (Carl Sagan)

"This bipedal creature with humanlike stride presents a riddle which has scientists scratching their heads. By any stretch of the evolutionary timeline, the footprints simply could not have been made by humans"

Scientists are not scratching their heads over this, they are distancing themselves from it until the anomalies have been addressed.

"The old traditions of nearly every culture speak of a war between the forces of light and darkness which raged in humankindâ€™s prehistory"

If there were any war between us and an advanced civilization, we would lose. But yet it is not us that went extinct, but the more advanced civilization. Once again, we have yet a third anomaly created by humoring the belief in pre-humanoid footprints.

"In the greatest number of these encounters, the entities being observed were described as..."

The Grays -- which are decidedly never described as reptilian or amphibious but as insect like. The ancient Hindu storytales of ancient civilizations were humanoids, and it was from those storytales that the idea of the-Gods-destroyed-themselves-with-nuclear-weapons theory came from. So much for the speculative fiction of Russell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The fossil tracks of both bare and shod feet of a decidedly humanoid impression&#8221;</p>
<p>It is not honest to speak of anomalies in terms as though they were indisputable facts and therefore have been accepted by the scientific community as fact, when the opposite is the truth.</p>
<p>&#8220;Although the discovery of these footprints in the stones of time are hardly rare&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>But they must be rare in order to be called anomalies. There are only eight tiny little sites in the whole entire world that a few individuals believe could contain evidence of pre-human footprints of an advanced civilization, yet absolutely no sites containing fossilized bones &#8212; that alone is an anomaly, so you have one anomaly created by the other, one on top of the other.</p>
<p>&#8220;Geologists, archaeologists, and anthropologists by and large refuse to accept such fossil evidence at face value because to do so would be to acknowledge that humans or some other bipedal humanoid or hominid creature lived in the earliest years of hypothetical evolutionary history&#8221;</p>
<p>Define &#8220;face value&#8221;. It would not be proper science for a scientist to accept any anomaly at &#8220;face value&#8221; because anomalies are red flags indicating either something is wrong with the data or the interpretation of the data. In this instance we have two anomalies on top of each other, further exabberating the problem. Furthermore, unlike any other belief or philosophy ever developed, science has been the most open-minded of them all and would be the first to accept that the idea of pre-humans &#8212; if it can be proven outside of the poorly told storytales about them&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;In science it often happens that scientists say, &#8216;You know that&#8217;s a really good argument; my position is mistaken,&#8217; and then they actually change their minds<br />
and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn&#8217;t happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is<br />
sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion&#8221; (Carl Sagan)</p>
<p>&#8220;This bipedal creature with humanlike stride presents a riddle which has scientists scratching their heads. By any stretch of the evolutionary timeline, the footprints simply could not have been made by humans&#8221;</p>
<p>Scientists are not scratching their heads over this, they are distancing themselves from it until the anomalies have been addressed.</p>
<p>&#8220;The old traditions of nearly every culture speak of a war between the forces of light and darkness which raged in humankindâ€™s prehistory&#8221;</p>
<p>If there were any war between us and an advanced civilization, we would lose. But yet it is not us that went extinct, but the more advanced civilization. Once again, we have yet a third anomaly created by humoring the belief in pre-humanoid footprints.</p>
<p>&#8220;In the greatest number of these encounters, the entities being observed were described as&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>The Grays &#8212; which are decidedly never described as reptilian or amphibious but as insect like. The ancient Hindu storytales of ancient civilizations were humanoids, and it was from those storytales that the idea of the-Gods-destroyed-themselves-with-nuclear-weapons theory came from. So much for the speculative fiction of Russell.</p>
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		<title>By: drew hempel</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2008/01/07/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4441</link>
		<dc:creator>drew hempel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/steiger-on-ancient-worlds/#comment-4441</guid>
		<description>What better way to justify our current acceleration towards ecological apocalypse then to entertain the notion that it's actually just some cyclical evolution of reptilian mammals naturally making shoes (and of course nukes). 

Wow.  I'm going to sleep better tonight. haha.  Who needs group hypnotic regression after reading the soothing nostalgic retro-future "para faction" of Steiger?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What better way to justify our current acceleration towards ecological apocalypse then to entertain the notion that it&#8217;s actually just some cyclical evolution of reptilian mammals naturally making shoes (and of course nukes). </p>
<p>Wow.  I&#8217;m going to sleep better tonight. haha.  Who needs group hypnotic regression after reading the soothing nostalgic retro-future &#8220;para faction&#8221; of Steiger?</p>
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