What’s with the hardon for Greg?

First of all, what would the spies want to do with the ‘laughable phenomenon’ of UFOs, as you call it?

If you have to ask it that way, then it couldn’t possibly be explained to you.

Next, your citing Stanton Friedman as some sort of authority to be trusted bears little weight with more and more intelligent people. Friedman is described, in certain circles, to be a member of The Aviary, or at least one of their conduits. True or not? I can’t say, but look at his staunch support of the MJ-12 docs over the years and how that obsession has led researchers astray for twenty-five years.

Now, tell us how you know that there is nothing to the UFO phenomenon. Seriously, explain how you know this to be certain, beyond your doubt…

What I see in your postings is a typically sophomoric disciple of science and psychology (in their academic limitations) who may actually be afraid of the implications of UFOs, or any other related and/or ‘unscientific’ phenomena, being real.

Attacking what Greg and Nick do as paid writers is beside the point, because that is business. They provide a product that entertains, as well as intrigues, and the marketplace provides them the means to do it. It’s no different than if they sold vacuum cleaners door to door, everyone goes to work in the way they have to.

You have a ’secret’ level clearance, so you know how the system works, to the degree you have access. As I know how the system works to the degree I had access with a TS/SCI and well above, which I won’t identify here (and you should know why). While there have been breaches, sometimes due to lax security practices, the general state of security is NOT usually incompetent, as you claim. Those of us who have worked in the business for several years are well aware that nothing is perfect, that’s why the security protocols are in place and they are checked and re-checked, and when they are not, it eventually bites someone’s ass. Again, veterans of this world know this, as I’m sure you should, being a denizen of the security clearance world, right…? Maybe it’s different on your level…

Yes, the UFO community has been silly for several years where government agents and agencies are concerned. I have told Greg that I concluded years ago the government figured out that handing over the custodial duties on the subject of UFOs, et al, to private corporate entities would provide culpable deniability, and I still feel that way. My OPINION is based upon having worked in that world, of course. I’m sure a veteran, such as yourself, should understand this… Right…?

You speak as if all evidence and all reports of UFOs are false, hallucinated, or can be explained away by swamp gas. That’s very 1955 of you. What you’re apparently ignorant of, obviously, is the history of aircraft technology research over the past 77 years, or so. And no, I’m not going to argue with you over that because I know what I’m talking about, and where I learned it to be true.

Oh, I expect to see paragraphs from my reply dissected about in your response, as you analyze them in the fashion of a college freshman who has just taken his first mid-term in logic.

Don’t get me wrong, Greg will tell you how I feel about ‘ufology’ and how silly and narrow-minded and obsessive it has become, all the while being gullible for certain worn out themes. But this posting was about real spies vs movie spies and Greg, being a civilian not in the game, can only talk to the level of his knowledge. As these guys go, and you obviously must not know very many of them yourself (right…?), Greg is actually one of the smarter, more cautious, less gullible, and moderate of the whole bunch.

I think you have some axe to grind about this issue of UFOs. Either you are ignorant of a lot of data, or you have been burned by someone or something. Maybe you haven’t obtained a professional level you desired. Maybe on your level there isn’t anything substantial enough to raise your awareness above the level of science as presented by the Smithsonian. I don’t know what your story is, I probably shouldn’t care. But in my years in the intelligence community, handling sources/assets, etc, I have learned that knowing someone’s story explains a LOT about what they express the strongest.

You seem to have a nerve exposed, regarding this stuff, so much so that I have to ask: Why does a guy with your opinions feel it necessary to log on so often and express such opinions, if you think it’s all bullshit…?

That’s the question I ask.

Anyway, someone involved with the writing of that Chuck Barris book and movie knows what they’re talking about. Notice I didn’t say ‘Chuck Barris was a hit man’ nor ‘That movie is gospel’. I’m saying somebody involved with writing the book and the movie does know what they’re talking about.

OK, so here comes the attack on me. I’ll probably ignore it.

It won’t change anything I know is fact…

Now you’re dictating what should be important to me, which is different from debate.

Fundamentalists say that there is only one right way to think and one way to learn. I fundamentally disagree. From your way of thinking, people should work in secret and keep quiet until they’ve found an “answer.”

I still fail to understand why you comment on this site when, by your logic, there is nothing to discuss. If, as you say, there is nothing behind the UFO phenomenon besides misperceptions and flawed belief systems, that must be the “answer.” You’ve solved it.

Actually you did. Unless you have solved the mystery, that is the only thing you can admit.

“Science as it is presently configured is most likely not going ’solve’ the UFO mystery, because there are elements to it that are not amenable to scientific scrutiny”

There is nothing to “solve” where nothing can be proven to exist in the first place. That in a nutshell is the whole entire problem of UFOlogy — which is otherwise known as “the study of nothing”. Science is presently configured to solve such things and it is called the psychology of mass delusions, fads, and religion. Psychology even explains the flaw of human perception. The government is the last place anyone should go to for scientific matters, as they are as far from scientific methodology as one can get.

“If you base your opinion about the government’s failure to keep secrets on those that have gotten out, I don’t need to point out the flaw in that reasoning”

You cannot point out any flaws because it is not an opinion, but a fact. The UFO community’s portrayal of the government ranges from bumbling idiots to superman in disguise, which is a laughably unsustainable, mutually contradictory stance to take. Which hat the government wears all depends on which theory-of-the-day the UFO community is trying to support at the moment. This wishy-washy approach to the matter only reinforces the giggle factor the UFO community has acquired.

I admitted to no such thing. I have found out information that was valuable to me. If it’s interesting to others, that’s great.

Science as it is presently configured is most likely not going “solve” the UFO mystery, because there are elements to it that are not amenable to scientific scrutiny. Worshipping at the altar of science will not get us very far in this effort, or it would have already.

If you refuse to include human perception and its flaws in the UFO equation, I wish you luck in your quest. Part of that human element is the government’s involvement in the matter, which interests me as well.

If you base your opinion about the govenment’s failure to keep secrets on those that have gotten out, I don’t need to point out the flaw in that reasoning.

I suggest that you discuss your scientific bias with the Society For Scientific Exploration. The membership is trying to push science into a new era. I don’t know if this would upset you or not.

As for your oblique personal attack about “all expense paid trips,” that is not why Nick or I (at least) are interested in this subject. It is an unreliable fringe benefit (?), and a way to drum up some publicity for books, as well as talk personally with people that we find to be interesting.

It’s obvious to me that you and I are not going to convince each other of anything, and we usually debate at cross-purposes. If you’re looking for an answer to the UFO mystery, it’s not going to be found here, or probably on any blog or site. Perhaps you can start some sort of project and try something that hasn’t been attempted yet.

By your own admission, you have not found out anything, so the game has not worked very well. The UFO phenomenon is still unsolved, unresolved, and mysterious as ever.

UFO researchers put far too much emphasis on government or military personnel with secret or top secret clearances. That is because they do not understand how the system works. Stanton Friedman exploits this fact in his UFO challenge speech and it works like a charm — on ignorant people that is. Sure the government can keep secrets, but that does not prove that they have any. I have a secret clearance where I work and can get into my workplace with no questions asked, but so can the janitor. Having a clearance does not mean you know any secrets. It does not even mean you will have any access to any secrets. Everything is on a “need to know” basis, although it is possible to find out more than you need to know because security enforcement is not very competent — just look at Los Alamos! The USA conducted top secret nuclear/biological/chemical warfare experiments on civilians without their consent or knowledge — which is definitely something worth covering up at all costs — yet here we are, with full knowledge of these atrocities because neither the government nor the military can keep any secret…at least not for very long.

If people were really serious about solving the UFO mystery, why do they not get off this over-dramatized cloak and dagger nonsense and onto something else more scientifically-oriented? Sure it is a game and a fun game that sells books and movies and could get you lots of all expense paid trips to various UFO conferences throughout the year, but to those of us who know and practice actual science, it is obvious that they are not really trying to be serious about it.

Thank you for continuing to read my posts.

There are various ways to check someone’s background, but the fact that they know things that are not in the public domain helps.

When someone shows an ID card at a high security Air Force base with nuclear weapons and an advanced R&D facility and is waved through with no questions while I’m in the car with him, that’s pretty indicative as well.

On the other hand, I was fooled for a couple of years by someone who said he was in Naval Intelligence, but found out later that he was not. He did have connections in high places, which I discovered after he died. Some of his information was invaluable, much of which I could not have found through normal channels.

You can of course minutely question everything I have said here ad infinitum, but all I can say is that you go into this expecting to be lied to, but you play the game to find out what you can.

For an answer to your last question, buy and read my book, Project Beta.

My girlfriend rented that one for us a few months ago. You’re right, it is another good examination of intel psychology.

Yes, but this “cult” happens to be in charge of some of our national security. I hesitate to pass judgment on ALL of the cult of intelligence, but there are certainly a lot of weird and wrong things done by them.