Nov 12 2007
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Movie Spies Vs. Real Spies
The 1995 TV series Nowhere Man
A couple of weeks ago, I re-watched Confessions Of A Dangerous Mind, the George Clooney-directed semi-biopic on Chuck Barris. It was very good even on second viewing. What it brings to mind is the gap between government agents that we see depicted on screen and real ones, whom I have met and spoken with on a few occasions.
While a movie or TV show cannot really give an audience the feeling of what it is like to deal with these people, I have found that recent efforts (Martin Sheen’s character in Showtime’s Roswell comes to mind, as well as the soft-focus paranoia of the main character in the short-lived series Nowhere Man) have come closer to the mark. The X-Files’ Mulder and Scully were law enforcement agents, not spies, and this may have had a lot to do with my disinterest in the show. This past weekend, someone asked me what these people are like. The best description of a good spy is that he or she is equal parts psychologist, magician, and robot.
In order to get people to do what you want them to, the agent needs to flatter the target’s personal prejudices and in many cases, feed their paranoia. In the case of UFO “leaks,” the general researcher profile is well-known. All that needs to be done is to feed information about a previously unkown event, or sensational revelations about an old case to the target, who gleefully spreads the story around the grapevine. In recent years, many researchers have become savvy to this method of decpetion, and most are now more careful before making announcements. This may have caused the disinfo mill to abandon the lone UFO researcher in favor of anonymous postings on various internet sites and blogs.
The field agent is still useful though in determining how well the stories have spread and more importantly, to keep in touch with those in whom various agencies are interested, well as (and perhaps more importantly) who they are talking to.
An agent also needs to be able to distract the target’s attention while other mission objectives are being pursued. One hand is showing you a blacked-out document while the other is rifling your briefcase. All the time, the agent needs to convince the person of interest that they are the only one who matters in the events at hand, even if they ultimately are all staged for his/ her benefit.
Some of the intel agents and others I have met who are involved in areas of national (and corporate) security are surprisingly emotionless, or appear to be that way in my presence. This may may of course be part of a warrior mindset, which is required in international espionage, but anyone seen as an enemy (and some assets as well) are no more than pawns to be manipulated in pursuit of a mission goal. Bill Moore mentioned to me that the intelligence puppetmaster known as “Falcon” would not talk about anything except the next step in the project at hand. Questions about his family or well-being were met with a stare or a quick change of subject.
One government scientist I met was deeply religious, although not fundamentalist, and would talk about comparitive religion for hours if the listener was receptive. He would clam up on questions about his involvement with certain projects. He did sincerely want to help with my research though, and I found that he would answer some questions hours or days later in what can best be described as a non-linear fashion, although I had to pay very close attention to understand that this was what he was doing.
There may be a book or film that depicts the feeling of interaction with intelligence agents in the way that I have experienced it, but I am not aware of any examples. This is of course due to individual reactions and psychology. The best that art or literature can do is attempt to communicate the indescribable, and the strange sense of excitement and fear that these people engender in the those who aren’t “in the club” can be quite seductive. Perhaps the best way to describe it is a “psychological carnival ride.”
If you ever have any dealings with these people (knowingly at any rate), stow your ego, keep your emotions in check, and don’t believe everything you hear, but remember all that is said.
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November 13th, 2007 at 9:25 am
Sounds like a description of a cult. Dogmatic, deluded, manipulative.
November 13th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Some of the intel agents and others I have met who are involved in areas of national (and corporate) security are surprisingly emotionless, or appear to be that way in my presence
You should definitely check Matt Damon’s “The Good Shepherd”, directed by Robert DeNiro.
November 13th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
euphemystic,
Yes, but this “cult” happens to be in charge of some of our national security. I hesitate to pass judgment on ALL of the cult of intelligence, but there are certainly a lot of weird and wrong things done by them.
November 13th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
RPJ,
My girlfriend rented that one for us a few months ago. You’re right, it is another good examination of intel psychology.
November 13th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
How would you know if someone you knew was a spy or not? Because they told you they were? And what would any spy from any country today, want to do with the laughable UFO phenomenon?
November 13th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Sage,
Thank you for continuing to read my posts.
There are various ways to check someone’s background, but the fact that they know things that are not in the public domain helps.
When someone shows an ID card at a high security Air Force base with nuclear weapons and an advanced R&D facility and is waved through with no questions while I’m in the car with him, that’s pretty indicative as well.
On the other hand, I was fooled for a couple of years by someone who said he was in Naval Intelligence, but found out later that he was not. He did have connections in high places, which I discovered after he died. Some of his information was invaluable, much of which I could not have found through normal channels.
You can of course minutely question everything I have said here ad infinitum, but all I can say is that you go into this expecting to be lied to, but you play the game to find out what you can.
For an answer to your last question, buy and read my book, Project Beta.
November 14th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
“All I can say is that you go into this expecting to be lied to, but you play the game to find out what you can”
By your own admission, you have not found out anything, so the game has not worked very well. The UFO phenomenon is still unsolved, unresolved, and mysterious as ever.
UFO researchers put far too much emphasis on government or military personnel with secret or top secret clearances. That is because they do not understand how the system works. Stanton Friedman exploits this fact in his UFO challenge speech and it works like a charm — on ignorant people that is. Sure the government can keep secrets, but that does not prove that they have any. I have a secret clearance where I work and can get into my workplace with no questions asked, but so can the janitor. Having a clearance does not mean you know any secrets. It does not even mean you will have any access to any secrets. Everything is on a “need to know” basis, although it is possible to find out more than you need to know because security enforcement is not very competent — just look at Los Alamos! The USA conducted top secret nuclear/biological/chemical warfare experiments on civilians without their consent or knowledge — which is definitely something worth covering up at all costs — yet here we are, with full knowledge of these atrocities because neither the government nor the military can keep any secret…at least not for very long.
If people were really serious about solving the UFO mystery, why do they not get off this over-dramatized cloak and dagger nonsense and onto something else more scientifically-oriented? Sure it is a game and a fun game that sells books and movies and could get you lots of all expense paid trips to various UFO conferences throughout the year, but to those of us who know and practice actual science, it is obvious that they are not really trying to be serious about it.
November 14th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Sage,
I admitted to no such thing. I have found out information that was valuable to me. If it’s interesting to others, that’s great.
Science as it is presently configured is most likely not going “solve” the UFO mystery, because there are elements to it that are not amenable to scientific scrutiny. Worshipping at the altar of science will not get us very far in this effort, or it would have already.
If you refuse to include human perception and its flaws in the UFO equation, I wish you luck in your quest. Part of that human element is the government’s involvement in the matter, which interests me as well.
If you base your opinion about the govenment’s failure to keep secrets on those that have gotten out, I don’t need to point out the flaw in that reasoning.
I suggest that you discuss your scientific bias with the Society For Scientific Exploration. The membership is trying to push science into a new era. I don’t know if this would upset you or not.
As for your oblique personal attack about “all expense paid trips,” that is not why Nick or I (at least) are interested in this subject. It is an unreliable fringe benefit (?), and a way to drum up some publicity for books, as well as talk personally with people that we find to be interesting.
It’s obvious to me that you and I are not going to convince each other of anything, and we usually debate at cross-purposes. If you’re looking for an answer to the UFO mystery, it’s not going to be found here, or probably on any blog or site. Perhaps you can start some sort of project and try something that hasn’t been attempted yet.
November 16th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
“I admitted to no such thing. I have found out information that was valuable to me”
Actually you did. Unless you have solved the mystery, that is the only thing you can admit.
“Science as it is presently configured is most likely not going ’solve’ the UFO mystery, because there are elements to it that are not amenable to scientific scrutiny”
There is nothing to “solve” where nothing can be proven to exist in the first place. That in a nutshell is the whole entire problem of UFOlogy — which is otherwise known as “the study of nothing”. Science is presently configured to solve such things and it is called the psychology of mass delusions, fads, and religion. Psychology even explains the flaw of human perception. The government is the last place anyone should go to for scientific matters, as they are as far from scientific methodology as one can get.
“If you base your opinion about the government’s failure to keep secrets on those that have gotten out, I don’t need to point out the flaw in that reasoning”
You cannot point out any flaws because it is not an opinion, but a fact. The UFO community’s portrayal of the government ranges from bumbling idiots to superman in disguise, which is a laughably unsustainable, mutually contradictory stance to take. Which hat the government wears all depends on which theory-of-the-day the UFO community is trying to support at the moment. This wishy-washy approach to the matter only reinforces the giggle factor the UFO community has acquired.
November 18th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
“Unless you have solved the mystery, that is the only thing you can admit.”
Now you’re dictating what should be important to me, which is different from debate.
Fundamentalists say that there is only one right way to think and one way to learn. I fundamentally disagree. From your way of thinking, people should work in secret and keep quiet until they’ve found an “answer.”
I still fail to understand why you comment on this site when, by your logic, there is nothing to discuss. If, as you say, there is nothing behind the UFO phenomenon besides misperceptions and flawed belief systems, that must be the “answer.” You’ve solved it.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:29 pm
OK, Sage,
What’s with the hardon for Greg?
First of all, what would the spies want to do with the ‘laughable phenomenon’ of UFOs, as you call it?
If you have to ask it that way, then it couldn’t possibly be explained to you.
Next, your citing Stanton Friedman as some sort of authority to be trusted bears little weight with more and more intelligent people. Friedman is described, in certain circles, to be a member of The Aviary, or at least one of their conduits. True or not? I can’t say, but look at his staunch support of the MJ-12 docs over the years and how that obsession has led researchers astray for twenty-five years.
Now, tell us how you know that there is nothing to the UFO phenomenon. Seriously, explain how you know this to be certain, beyond your doubt…
What I see in your postings is a typically sophomoric disciple of science and psychology (in their academic limitations) who may actually be afraid of the implications of UFOs, or any other related and/or ‘unscientific’ phenomena, being real.
Attacking what Greg and Nick do as paid writers is beside the point, because that is business. They provide a product that entertains, as well as intrigues, and the marketplace provides them the means to do it. It’s no different than if they sold vacuum cleaners door to door, everyone goes to work in the way they have to.
You have a ’secret’ level clearance, so you know how the system works, to the degree you have access. As I know how the system works to the degree I had access with a TS/SCI and well above, which I won’t identify here (and you should know why). While there have been breaches, sometimes due to lax security practices, the general state of security is NOT usually incompetent, as you claim. Those of us who have worked in the business for several years are well aware that nothing is perfect, that’s why the security protocols are in place and they are checked and re-checked, and when they are not, it eventually bites someone’s ass. Again, veterans of this world know this, as I’m sure you should, being a denizen of the security clearance world, right…? Maybe it’s different on your level…
Yes, the UFO community has been silly for several years where government agents and agencies are concerned. I have told Greg that I concluded years ago the government figured out that handing over the custodial duties on the subject of UFOs, et al, to private corporate entities would provide culpable deniability, and I still feel that way. My OPINION is based upon having worked in that world, of course. I’m sure a veteran, such as yourself, should understand this… Right…?
You speak as if all evidence and all reports of UFOs are false, hallucinated, or can be explained away by swamp gas. That’s very 1955 of you. What you’re apparently ignorant of, obviously, is the history of aircraft technology research over the past 77 years, or so. And no, I’m not going to argue with you over that because I know what I’m talking about, and where I learned it to be true.
Oh, I expect to see paragraphs from my reply dissected about in your response, as you analyze them in the fashion of a college freshman who has just taken his first mid-term in logic.
Don’t get me wrong, Greg will tell you how I feel about ‘ufology’ and how silly and narrow-minded and obsessive it has become, all the while being gullible for certain worn out themes. But this posting was about real spies vs movie spies and Greg, being a civilian not in the game, can only talk to the level of his knowledge. As these guys go, and you obviously must not know very many of them yourself (right…?), Greg is actually one of the smarter, more cautious, less gullible, and moderate of the whole bunch.
I think you have some axe to grind about this issue of UFOs. Either you are ignorant of a lot of data, or you have been burned by someone or something. Maybe you haven’t obtained a professional level you desired. Maybe on your level there isn’t anything substantial enough to raise your awareness above the level of science as presented by the Smithsonian. I don’t know what your story is, I probably shouldn’t care. But in my years in the intelligence community, handling sources/assets, etc, I have learned that knowing someone’s story explains a LOT about what they express the strongest.
You seem to have a nerve exposed, regarding this stuff, so much so that I have to ask: Why does a guy with your opinions feel it necessary to log on so often and express such opinions, if you think it’s all bullshit…?
That’s the question I ask.
Anyway, someone involved with the writing of that Chuck Barris book and movie knows what they’re talking about. Notice I didn’t say ‘Chuck Barris was a hit man’ nor ‘That movie is gospel’. I’m saying somebody involved with writing the book and the movie does know what they’re talking about.
OK, so here comes the attack on me. I’ll probably ignore it.
It won’t change anything I know is fact…
May 30th, 2008 at 1:53 am
Reading through these older posts, I realize that I forgot to thank publicly thank Walter for coming to my defense.