Aug 30 2007
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UFO Researchers and the U.S. Government
In his infamous 1989 speech to MUFON, Bill Moore told the assembled cognescenti of ufology that they’d been had by elements of U.S. counterintelligence. Amidst surprised gasps and shouts of derision, he explained that he knew this because he was in the middle of it. The Nevada state section director had to interrupt more than once to restore order.
It was very dramatic and I didn’t quite know what all the fuss was about, since I had just jumped into the civilian UFO research field through personal contact with Moore about a year earlier. I had a unique opportunity to grill him whenever I wanted to about his motivations for making a deal with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI), and by extension, other groups like the CIA, and the Defense Intelligence Agency.
In a recent interview with Moore, I asked him if he would do it all over again. Not surprisingly, he said that he would. He also remembered that the “deal” was not as cut and dried as most would expect. Like any agreement without a written contract, the party holding the cards will introduce more distasteful elements slowly, and we all know who controls the conversation in any deal with the government. You can keep playing, or drop out and get nothing.
Moore has said that he knew that other researchers were playing this game. He has yet to identify who those “others” were, since he says that they are still living, and it’s not his place to “out” people who have decided to keep quiet. Considering the derision still lurking in the field, this isn’t surprising, but how well-placed is this hatred for perceived “turncoats?”
In a recent email exchange with author/ researcher Richard Dolan, I was reminded of a passage in my book Project Beta that concerns one of the most sainted ufologists of all time. Dr. Josef Allen Hynek probably did more than anyone else in the field to bring the subject before a wider audience and give it some measure of respect among his scientific peers. What many do not know is that Hynek, a former employee of the U.S. Air Force, was apparently kept on retainer with the USAF long after his involvement with Project Blue Book. In this capacity, he might have been asked about anything that was puzzling the Air Force on the subject of UFOs, and even astronomy, which was of course his main field of academic study. This might seem innocent enough, except for one incident which I am still trying to confirm. While researching the book, Moore told me that in 1980, Hynek had done something that would chill the bones of any serious ufologist.
To be continued.
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August 30th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
I wonder if Moore’s response to your question would have differed if Paul Bennewitz might have ended up killing himself.
“Yeah” I helped to f#%k that man’s life, but if was for the best of intentions”.
August 30th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
I can’t wait for Richard Dolan’s next book to come out. Any word on that? It would also be interesting to read a book or the MUFON speech or lengthy article about Bill Moore’s experience with the government.
August 30th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Hey misteranderson, on a completely side note: Did you know that Keanu “The One” Reeves is going to make a new version of “The Day the Earth Stood Still”?? Merry Xmas
August 30th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
I know Keanu is a doofus, but the Matrix was great, & I love science fiction movies, there are so few good scifi movies out there…..is Klattu going to say “dude…”?
August 30th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
“Greetings my most fearfully Earthly dudes” If he says that I wouldn’t mind, because they end up killing Klatuu
But I think the guy got better after his career progressed.
August 30th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
red pill,
I knew that this sort of thing would come up if I mentioned Moore again.
Most observers have this image of Moore steadily feeding Bennewitz reams of government disinfo and speaking with him late into the night, trying to convince Paul that he was onto something important. If you have read Project Beta, you know that Moore and Bennewitz met on only a few occasions, spoke on the phone less than that, and that Moore actually warned Bennewitz not to take the Aquarius document seriously, which he didn’t.
If Bennewitz had done away with himself, I’m not sure what Moore would have to say about that.
But it’s easy to be above the situation when you were not involved in it, or don’t understand it fully. I sure don’t have all the answers.
When Moore is on my radio show next time, you ought to call in and see what he has to say for himself. I’d be interested in the response. He’s been on twice since this blog has been in existence (when I announced the appearances ahead of time) and we only received one call, even though we had more listeners than normal.
August 30th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
mister anderson,
Richard Dolan is putting the final touches on the second book, I think. His emails with me were probably part of that process.
I have the original copy of the Las Vegas speech, but I’d have to transcribe it, and I’d need Moore’s permission to post it.
As for Moore’s expreience with the government, that might be an idea I can float by him, even though he’s probably loath to go into it again , at least publicly.
August 30th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Both of ya,
I once wrote an article for Kenn Thomas’ Steamshovel Press called “Why The First 10 Minutes Of The Matrix is The Best Conspiracy Movie Ever Made.” In the piece, I discussed the blue pill/ red pill dichotomy, and the trip through the looking glass, finally ending with the “podlike” thing that rejects Neo because he’s been awakened and not of any use to the matrix any more.
Great stuff from the Wachowski bros.
August 30th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Greg,
Does that mean you have a recording? Is it postable over the internet? Or, are there MUFON transcriptions or recordings? I think one thing that really interests me, is a sort of analysis of what their method is. It can be presumed they have a method, it would be interesting to try & understand what that method is. I guess I’m going to have to buy Project Beta…
p.s. the subscribe to comments field doesn’t work, I don’t get any emails from this…is that what’s suppose to happen?
August 30th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
misteranderson,
I don’t have a recording, although I’m trying to locate one. What I do have is the original hard copy (along with handwritten notes and edits) that Moore was holding when he delivered the talk.
The “method” as you say, seems to be whatever gets the job done at the time. Some eager UFO researchers can be used to check the spread of rumors and presumed “secret” admissions. This is usually in furtherance of an agenda that has nothing at all to do with UFOs. The problem is that the disinfo mucks up more worthwile pursuits (if there are any with regards to the government.) I have a feeling that this “CARET” stuff is just the latest iteration of this.
Re: your emails - Check your spam filter. That’s where my “subscribe to” emails end up. If not, we’ll have to ask the site administrator about it.
August 31st, 2007 at 8:59 am
Greg I didn’t know you had a radio show. Is it possible to hear it through the internet?
Also, a phone call would be hard for me, since I’m in Mexico. Is there some other form of contact? Like a chat or something?
If not, I hope you get the chance to include my opinion when you interview him.
I uderstand what you say, but regardless it would seem he didn’t go “all the way” to let Bennewitz know he was the target of a disinfo campaign; as I understand it from what I’ve read so far he didn’t want to “blow his cover”, but then you have to ask yourself -and that’s a question to all of you my fellow UFO enthusiasts- HOW FAR are you willing to go to find the answers you desperately seek? Where do you draw the line? I would have ethical problems with that in my case.
Because if I go along with these guy’s games, who apparently have done all they can to cover this amazing truth to the public (no matter how illegal o immoral), then it makes me no different than them doesn’t it?
If they (government, military) know something and have lied and confused, and even killed to protect this secrecy, I’m sure that in their minds they too think they are doing the right thing…
August 31st, 2007 at 9:35 am
red pill,
I don’t assume that the government knows everything. As I have said before, perhaps (taken as a whole) they know more than we do about sightings, landings, abductions, etc, but not much.
What I don’t think they know is 1) Where the non-human presence comes from and 2) Why they’re here. That’s why abductees, researchers, etc. are still watched–not to let any “secret” as such get out, but for information. Admission that they knew what they know (once again, not much more than the rest of us) and do what they do would erode the little power that this holds over people.
As for your question of “how much is too much,” I think that each person has to answer that for themselves.
Millions of people died in WWII, but we might argue that it was “necessary.” Of course, this is a valid philosophical argument. Perhaps when the state of the race is at stake (at least our view of ourselves and our place in the scheme of things) some of the same factors come into play, at least, that’s how some in places of power may see it.
In order to glean more info from those who may have what we need, some of us need to play their game. If that game involves questions of ethics, each person must decide what the rules are. Can we condemn someone and still heed their revelations, or is the information suddenly tainted? I choose to withhold condemnation (at least out loud) and look at whatever can be useful to me or others who are interested in the information. I don’t think that makes me “no better than they are.”
Another example: If a reporter interviews Charles Manson, does that make him an accomplice to murder? I don’t think so. It also depends on how it’s presented, of course. If someone reads or watches the interview, are they responsible as well? We seek information to learn.
When Moore is on again, I’ll post contact info for IM or email.
August 31st, 2007 at 11:57 am
Egads, everyone here isn’t a Radio Mysterioso, BoA and Anomaly Radio junkie like me? From my brief conversation with Bill Moore the last time he appeared on Greg’s show, he seems like a consummate professional researcher and wily, too. Please listen to his show on Sundays 11pm EST/8pm PST and call in with some pertinent questions.
August 31st, 2007 at 12:03 pm
It kind of open a Pandora’s box isn’t it? For example, do we condemn the US for using the knowledge of the german scientists that helped bomb London because the same knowledge put a man on the Moon? What about big pharma companies that conduct drug trials on 3rd world countries so the Western can have those medicines they need to fight their colesterol levels and diabetes?
A little off-topic I know. Ok, let’s do an X-Files spinoff on this one. Remember when Mulder and Scully went to that Air Force base to investigate reports of advanced aircraft that had reversed.engineered UFO technology? Scully admits that IF the government had such advanced machinery they had all th right in the world to keep it secret by whatever means necessary, and then Mulder asks when is the human cost so big that it no longer justifies the price you pay for a machine?
Sorry, it’s just that I LOVE messing my head with these kind of conundrums
August 31st, 2007 at 12:50 pm
RPJ, As a former member of the US military, I’d take Mulder’s side of the argument any day of the week. I’m dead certain that the advanced technology necessary for the flight envelope of some of the secret govt aircraft misidentified as UFO’s would have saved the US taxpayers billions of dollars in transportation energy costs in terms of fuel consumption. I’ve had both engineering and physics courses and if any of the hundreds of videos that I’ve watched of UFO’s were secret govt aircraft their performance couldn’t have performed by an internal/external combustion engine. They must be either nuclear-powered or some other form of exotic propulsion system that could basically end the world’s dependence on crude oil. The decision to withhold such technology definitely shouldn’t be in the hands of the Shadow govt. whose only agenda from what I have deduced is saving their own skin and retaining their illusionary power and to hell with the rest of humanity.
August 31st, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Hey crgintx, I understand your views on this. It’s like this story I once read about Richar Nixon once met with an alien being (a nordic) and this being offered to insruct humanity to erradicate all source of diseases and help end hunger; but Nixonrefused on the grounds that he exlain the being that the economy in our society is based on death and hunger, and if those would disappear then total caos would ensue.
It’s not that I believe the story, but it’s interesting for me because of thi natural opposition by the establishment to accept any new idea that would endanger their power, even if they don’t have a structured sinister secret agenda or not, the system is self-regulated so only the most corruptible politicians can reach the highest positions to keep the engine running, you know? I see this all the time especially here in my country Mexico.
September 8th, 2007 at 12:03 am
RPJ,
Now we’re starting to think alike! The GAME is what’s interesting–if we can learn anything along the way, that’s icing on the cake.
We can condemn all we want, but I don’t think it will make much difference to those who play the power/ money game. One of our last options is to use our knowledge of abuses of power to affect what we can, whether it be at the ballot box, how we spend our money, or just in our dealings with each other.
October 19th, 2007 at 12:00 am
i will read these comments over eventually but i think its important to alert you all to new developments in ufo research…google the phrase “steve tobias ufo” or “new jersey ufo”
and read any comments online by steve tobias and also the screen name DERRLL5.
Its important and there are also videos on youtube about this stuff. key words at youtube are “nasa worm” or “worm ufo”
also “nasa ufos” also “Ufo Formation off Coast of New Jersey on Radar”. See my short videos sent there by DERRLL5. Time is Running Out. Avoid travel on the Seas if possible. I am ex air force and i only give worse case scenarios until the cover up ends. Stop the ufo cover up . - Derr
October 19th, 2007 at 8:55 am
My youtube,com videos show ufos on NASA photos taken while crews were in orbit around the Earth.Use search words “nasa ufo” and click on date added to see DERRLL5 videos, use pause button to stop the video to see carefully the small white spheres and oblong shapes all the same size and same color on NASA images….important, since on sept 01 2007 ufo lights were seen off the coast of new jersey and the next day that same beach area was closed on a busy holiday weekend….use search words on google “new jersey ufo” and see my extensive comments online, as DERRLL5. Its a cover up due to aliens coming to Earth. Learn the Truth now…Time is Running out… avoid going to sea…avoid becoming a statistic . google phrase “new jersey ufo” to see more comments by me. -DERR