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	<title>Comments on: Crop Circle Conference</title>
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	<description>UFO News, Views, and More</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: uth</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2007/08/09/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2817</link>
		<dc:creator>uth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2817</guid>
		<description>&#62; Yeah, I thought so too. And I 
&#62; also thought that any form a paranormal
&#62; event would take- would have to be
&#62; somewhat archaic- like a cave drawing.
&#62; So, yeah- just a simple circle.

&#62; But why make that assumption? If some
&#62; paranormal supraconsciousness were 
&#62; really trying to “play” with us-
&#62; wouldn’t these simple circles be too
&#62; easy to write off? No fun. 

The reason I've taken that stance is the scene in England seems to be too tainted with human groups, and the constant game of one-upsmanship has caused me to doubt any of the complex designs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Yeah, I thought so too. And I<br />
&gt; also thought that any form a paranormal<br />
&gt; event would take- would have to be<br />
&gt; somewhat archaic- like a cave drawing.<br />
&gt; So, yeah- just a simple circle.</p>
<p>&gt; But why make that assumption? If some<br />
&gt; paranormal supraconsciousness were<br />
&gt; really trying to “play” with us-<br />
&gt; wouldn’t these simple circles be too<br />
&gt; easy to write off? No fun. </p>
<p>The reason I&#8217;ve taken that stance is the scene in England seems to be too tainted with human groups, and the constant game of one-upsmanship has caused me to doubt any of the complex designs.</p>
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		<title>By: galactus_westerberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2007/08/09/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2814</link>
		<dc:creator>galactus_westerberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2814</guid>
		<description>Those are impressive circles by Matt Williams. Of course, circlemakers probably think a dialogue like this is hilarious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are impressive circles by Matt Williams. Of course, circlemakers probably think a dialogue like this is hilarious.</p>
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		<title>By: galactus_westerberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2007/08/09/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2813</link>
		<dc:creator>galactus_westerberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2813</guid>
		<description>"I keep hearing about anomolies in the grain, but that claim seems to come from a tight-knit group of people. Have these anomolies been widely studied?"

The nodal anomalies were recently being examined on a Discovery Channel program, let alone thousands of internet sites and books. As for the crystalline-like crop, I've recently read that from firsthand accounts (including Pinchbeck's book).

The gyring can be seen here:
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2007/eastfield2/DSCF05g56.JPG


"The complex ones have the hallmarks of an subculture/scene to them."

Yeah, I thought so too. And I also thought that any form a paranormal event would take- would have to be somewhat archaic- like a cave drawing. So, yeah- just a simple circle.

But why make that assumption? If some paranormal supraconsciousness were really trying to "play" with us- wouldn't these simple circles be too easy to write off? No fun. 

And as much as these complicated circles look like geek chic knockoffs from the early 90s- or pin-ups from Omni magazine- what is "alien" supposed to look like? The Arecibo message included a series of mathetical proofs, right? Well, so are these- only far more complicated, as I understand it. 

If it's humans- kudos. Crop circles in over 70 countries, over 10,000 since the 70s- they're aces at organizing a clandestine worldwide art movement. These guys should be running the world.

If it's the military- I'm not surprised.

If, on the other hand, it's something else... then maybe it's all a cynical game, hatched by our cosmic/telluric caretakers.  Who knows? But it's also residual evidence of the unknowable. Probably the most concrete we have. And that's something special.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I keep hearing about anomolies in the grain, but that claim seems to come from a tight-knit group of people. Have these anomolies been widely studied?&#8221;</p>
<p>The nodal anomalies were recently being examined on a Discovery Channel program, let alone thousands of internet sites and books. As for the crystalline-like crop, I&#8217;ve recently read that from firsthand accounts (including Pinchbeck&#8217;s book).</p>
<p>The gyring can be seen here:<br />
<a href="http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2007/eastfield2/DSCF05g56.JPG" rel="nofollow">http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2007/eastfield2/DSCF05g56.JPG</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The complex ones have the hallmarks of an subculture/scene to them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, I thought so too. And I also thought that any form a paranormal event would take- would have to be somewhat archaic- like a cave drawing. So, yeah- just a simple circle.</p>
<p>But why make that assumption? If some paranormal supraconsciousness were really trying to &#8220;play&#8221; with us- wouldn&#8217;t these simple circles be too easy to write off? No fun. </p>
<p>And as much as these complicated circles look like geek chic knockoffs from the early 90s- or pin-ups from Omni magazine- what is &#8220;alien&#8221; supposed to look like? The Arecibo message included a series of mathetical proofs, right? Well, so are these- only far more complicated, as I understand it. </p>
<p>If it&#8217;s humans- kudos. Crop circles in over 70 countries, over 10,000 since the 70s- they&#8217;re aces at organizing a clandestine worldwide art movement. These guys should be running the world.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s the military- I&#8217;m not surprised.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, it&#8217;s something else&#8230; then maybe it&#8217;s all a cynical game, hatched by our cosmic/telluric caretakers.  Who knows? But it&#8217;s also residual evidence of the unknowable. Probably the most concrete we have. And that&#8217;s something special.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Redfern</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2007/08/09/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2812</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Redfern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2812</guid>
		<description>Galactus and Uth:

There's no doubt that there are certain anomalies in Crop Circles, and the 2012 book is an example of how the controversy of human vs anomalous has progressed.

Indeed, even some (actually quite a lot; they just don't like to talk about it) of the human circle makers have experienced some very weird things in the circles they themselves made.

Coming from the UK, and having spent a lot of time down in Wiltshire (where most of the Circles are found each year), I can tell you that there are most definitely a number of teams that make these things each summer; very skilled, very organized.

A good friend of mine, Matthew Williams, was arrested, charged and convicted for doing this. In the wake of the publicity, he was flown to New Zealand by Japanese TV to demonstrate how he did it.

&lt;a title="Here is the link" href="http://www.memorologyllc.com/CropCircleInfo/DemonstrationInNewZealand1.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;Here is the link&lt;/a&gt; to a couple of photos of the Crop Circle formations made by Matthew Williams for Japanese TV while in New Zealand:

As you’ll see, they are impressive and one in particular closely resembles a formation that previously appeared in the UK and that some believe to be evidence of something strange.

I'm not saying that the whole Circle puzzle is without merit, but it is a fact that there is a massive human presence in the making of these things in the UK.

The problem is that "crop circles are made by people" isn't what a lot of people want to hear.

Personally, I find the issue of the human makers experiencing weird phenomena in the fields to be the most intriguing. In fact, Matt Williams believes that the work of the human makers is guided in some way, by a higher intelligence.

So, he sees the formations as not made by an unknown intelligence directly per se, but that this intelligence uses the human circle makers as a conduit or channel for "its" work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Galactus and Uth:</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no doubt that there are certain anomalies in Crop Circles, and the 2012 book is an example of how the controversy of human vs anomalous has progressed.</p>
<p>Indeed, even some (actually quite a lot; they just don&#8217;t like to talk about it) of the human circle makers have experienced some very weird things in the circles they themselves made.</p>
<p>Coming from the UK, and having spent a lot of time down in Wiltshire (where most of the Circles are found each year), I can tell you that there are most definitely a number of teams that make these things each summer; very skilled, very organized.</p>
<p>A good friend of mine, Matthew Williams, was arrested, charged and convicted for doing this. In the wake of the publicity, he was flown to New Zealand by Japanese TV to demonstrate how he did it.</p>
<p><a title="Here is the link" href="http://www.memorologyllc.com/CropCircleInfo/DemonstrationInNewZealand1.htm" rel="nofollow">Here is the link</a> to a couple of photos of the Crop Circle formations made by Matthew Williams for Japanese TV while in New Zealand:</p>
<p>As you’ll see, they are impressive and one in particular closely resembles a formation that previously appeared in the UK and that some believe to be evidence of something strange.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that the whole Circle puzzle is without merit, but it is a fact that there is a massive human presence in the making of these things in the UK.</p>
<p>The problem is that &#8220;crop circles are made by people&#8221; isn&#8217;t what a lot of people want to hear.</p>
<p>Personally, I find the issue of the human makers experiencing weird phenomena in the fields to be the most intriguing. In fact, Matt Williams believes that the work of the human makers is guided in some way, by a higher intelligence.</p>
<p>So, he sees the formations as not made by an unknown intelligence directly per se, but that this intelligence uses the human circle makers as a conduit or channel for &#8220;its&#8221; work.</p>
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		<title>By: uth</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2007/08/09/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2811</link>
		<dc:creator>uth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2811</guid>
		<description>Military satellites firing microwave beams at the fields may explain the strange sensations people claim to experience when  standing in a fresh circle.  ;-)

As for whether the military could produce such pics,  I don't see why not.  Many of them are based on well-known mathmatical equations, others are bit-mapped pics, these are very easy to generate with a computer and a little knowledge.  That doesn't mean I fully buy this theory though.

Personally, my feeling is that if any of the circles are genuinely paranormal,  it is the simple ones (aka saucer nests).  People have witnessed UFOs creating them.   The complex ones have the hallmarks of an subculture/scene to them.   It reminds me of the demoscene on PCs.   The alien/disc formation especially. (is it more likely that a binary/ascii encoded message is the work of aliens or computer geeks?   I think the latter.)

I keep hearing about anomolies in the grain,  but that claim seems to come from a tight-knit group of people.   Have these anomolies been widely studied?  Is there a resource that can match anomolous grain to certain circle pics,  and non-anomolous ones to others?  That might provide interesting insights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Military satellites firing microwave beams at the fields may explain the strange sensations people claim to experience when  standing in a fresh circle.  <img src='http://www.ufomystic.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As for whether the military could produce such pics,  I don&#8217;t see why not.  Many of them are based on well-known mathmatical equations, others are bit-mapped pics, these are very easy to generate with a computer and a little knowledge.  That doesn&#8217;t mean I fully buy this theory though.</p>
<p>Personally, my feeling is that if any of the circles are genuinely paranormal,  it is the simple ones (aka saucer nests).  People have witnessed UFOs creating them.   The complex ones have the hallmarks of an subculture/scene to them.   It reminds me of the demoscene on PCs.   The alien/disc formation especially. (is it more likely that a binary/ascii encoded message is the work of aliens or computer geeks?   I think the latter.)</p>
<p>I keep hearing about anomolies in the grain,  but that claim seems to come from a tight-knit group of people.   Have these anomolies been widely studied?  Is there a resource that can match anomolous grain to certain circle pics,  and non-anomolous ones to others?  That might provide interesting insights.</p>
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		<title>By: galactus_westerberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2007/08/09/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2810</link>
		<dc:creator>galactus_westerberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2810</guid>
		<description>Nick- had you read Daniel Pinchbeck's account of meeting with circle-makers in his recent book 2012: Return of Quetzalcoatl? After meeting with two alleged circle-makers, Pinchbeck concluded that these claims of "human circle-making" may be a deliberate smokescreen- that while there are circles made by humans, they are qualitatively different from those he and other witnesses consider "genuine circles".  

Again- neverminding the extraordinary patterns- I'm just looking for a simple explanation- how does one explain the blasted nodes, the "gyring" of the crop (where stalks are entwined around one another), and the crop's crystallization (like walking on glass, in the words of various witnesses)? Have you or other answered that somewhere?

I'm open to a human origin for circles- and I agree, it does make the phenomenon more interesting- I'd put genuine human circle-makers on par with a Max Ernst or a Antonin Artaud (some transcendental provocauteur), bigger even- but what's the likelihood a bunch of guys with rope and wooden boards could not only produce these incredibly flawless designs (take a look at that Wiltshire circle from 7/7/07)- but also remain laregly above the law (how many circle-making arrests have been made?), and keep it all a secret? 

Again, the most persuasive explanation I've read is Vallee's- military satellites firing microwaves at the crop- in a bid to activate some obscure occult system- and yet, it's also incredibly unsatisfying. I can't believe the military complex could create such inspiring and transcendental designs. 

I'm open to human circlemaking- but I'm not sure why anyone should accept it on blind faith (which is all I seem to be getting from those "in the know"), anymore than an ET/UT/CT origin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick- had you read Daniel Pinchbeck&#8217;s account of meeting with circle-makers in his recent book 2012: Return of Quetzalcoatl? After meeting with two alleged circle-makers, Pinchbeck concluded that these claims of &#8220;human circle-making&#8221; may be a deliberate smokescreen- that while there are circles made by humans, they are qualitatively different from those he and other witnesses consider &#8220;genuine circles&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Again- neverminding the extraordinary patterns- I&#8217;m just looking for a simple explanation- how does one explain the blasted nodes, the &#8220;gyring&#8221; of the crop (where stalks are entwined around one another), and the crop&#8217;s crystallization (like walking on glass, in the words of various witnesses)? Have you or other answered that somewhere?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m open to a human origin for circles- and I agree, it does make the phenomenon more interesting- I&#8217;d put genuine human circle-makers on par with a Max Ernst or a Antonin Artaud (some transcendental provocauteur), bigger even- but what&#8217;s the likelihood a bunch of guys with rope and wooden boards could not only produce these incredibly flawless designs (take a look at that Wiltshire circle from 7/7/07)- but also remain laregly above the law (how many circle-making arrests have been made?), and keep it all a secret? </p>
<p>Again, the most persuasive explanation I&#8217;ve read is Vallee&#8217;s- military satellites firing microwaves at the crop- in a bid to activate some obscure occult system- and yet, it&#8217;s also incredibly unsatisfying. I can&#8217;t believe the military complex could create such inspiring and transcendental designs. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m open to human circlemaking- but I&#8217;m not sure why anyone should accept it on blind faith (which is all I seem to be getting from those &#8220;in the know&#8221;), anymore than an ET/UT/CT origin?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Redfern</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2007/08/09/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2798</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Redfern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2798</guid>
		<description>The true believers are indeed aware of the human circle makers. The problem is, however, that for many of them Crop Circles are a form of belief system that must not be questioned in terms of having been caused by UFOs, aliens etc etc.
The fact is that the human angle is a massively significant aspect of the Circle phenomenon. In fact, I'd say it's practically the ONLY aspect of the phenomeonon.
Granted, there are a lot of circle makers who have experienced some weird phenomena in their own formations, but the true believers want to hear something different.
Too bad: that head in the sand approach goes nowwhere, other than (ironically) round in circles...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The true believers are indeed aware of the human circle makers. The problem is, however, that for many of them Crop Circles are a form of belief system that must not be questioned in terms of having been caused by UFOs, aliens etc etc.<br />
The fact is that the human angle is a massively significant aspect of the Circle phenomenon. In fact, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s practically the ONLY aspect of the phenomeonon.<br />
Granted, there are a lot of circle makers who have experienced some weird phenomena in their own formations, but the true believers want to hear something different.<br />
Too bad: that head in the sand approach goes nowwhere, other than (ironically) round in circles&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: misteranderson</title>
		<link>http://www.ufomystic.com/2007/08/09/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2797</link>
		<dc:creator>misteranderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ufomystic.com/the-redfern-files/crop-circle-conference/#comment-2797</guid>
		<description>Hasn't anyone heard that some of the perpetrators have come forward &#38; confessed to the hoax? Why does anyone take crop circles seriously?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hasn&#8217;t anyone heard that some of the perpetrators have come forward &amp; confessed to the hoax? Why does anyone take crop circles seriously?</p>
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