Alien Believers Bungle Another One
Via the Anomalist, posted on From The Shadows blog :
Young Vern often saw people outside his house at night.
From age five to six, Vern would look out his bedroom window in Orrick, Mo., and people with large, fishlike eyes would walk around his yard and sometime into his neighbor’s houses. At the time, this wasn’t strange to him.
“They were the Night People,†Vern said plainly. Everyone Vern knew – himself, his family, his friends – lived in the real world during the day. The people he saw outside his bedroom window lived there when the sun went down. “In my mind we were the Day People and they were the Night People. I know that sounds weird but that’s how it seemed.â€Â
Vern, now an adult living in Liberty, Mo., thought the Night People were normal.
“I’d wake up at night and see these people with big eyes living a regular life,†he said. “I could see faces, clothes, they had kids… I do remember the adult mowing the yard. But I thought it was weird because I couldn’t hear the mower.â€Â
He also watched them walk up and down the street, pausing to speak with each other.
“They seemed like they were talking and interacting normally,†Vern said. “Like down home. You’d just see people talking.â€Â
Then Vern’s family moved from Orrick to nearby Liberty and he saw the same fish-eyed Night People outside his window.
One night, he finally made contact … and never saw them again.
“The children were playing in the yard next door and I thought, hey, I might go play with them,†he said. “What’s weird, though, is the last time I saw them, it seemed like all of a sudden they seemed to notice that I’d noticed them. One of the adults just looked at me and just realized, ‘they see me now.’ And the next thing I see is it’s daylight and I never see (them) again.â€Â
Vern had blacked out and came to hours later.
“If this was real, I probably wasn’t perceived as a threat until I decided to come out and play,†Vern said.
But who were these Night People only Vern could see? Vern’s memories of them are similar to that of alien abductees who also wake up to see large-eyed, friendly, familiar beings they later identify as classic gray aliens.
Margie Kay, host of the Quest paranormal radio program, ghost hunter and psychic, said Vern’s experiences were related to alien abduction.
“This is more common than most people think,†Margie said. “Vern is likely an abductee.â€Â
Extraterrestrials, Margie said, live in another dimension and are capable of entering and leaving ours whenever they want to – like Vern’s Night People.
Another piece of evidence may have come out of Vern’s nose when he was 14.
“I had a nose bleed and didn’t stop it,†he said. “I finally blew my nose.â€Â
What he found shouldn’t have been there.
“It looked like a capsule of silvery something,†he said. “At first it felt hard then started dissolving. I was trying to figure out what it was and it dissolved in my hand.â€Â
Many people who claim they’ve been abducted by extraterrestrials report similar metallic objects coming from their nose. UFO researcher and physician, Dr. Roger Leir, has reported surgically removing many similar objects from patients.
“I wonder if I wasn’t tagged or something,†Vern said.
Margie thinks he was.
“This sounds like a typical implant in the nose scenario,†Margie said. “And he probably saw aliens, too.â€Â
Whatever the true origin of Vern’s Night People – whether they are the product of a child’s imagination or alien abduction – it’s affected his life for decades.
“You have to realize I was five and six at the time,†Vern said. “It’s vivid enough I still remember it after 45 years.â€Â
Copyright 2007 by Jason Offutt
So, this Margie Kay person takes an interesting account of something that appears to be an alternate or parallel reality of some sort and reduces it to an abduction scenario. Perhaps she was quoted out of context, but the fact that she was quoted as stating that “Extraterrestrials live in another dimension and are capable of entering and leaving ours whenever they want to” leaves us wondering how she can make such a definitive conclusion.
For the love of Betty Hill, keep these witnesses away from ufologists looking to bulk up their case files and contaminate memories to conform to standard. Late abduction researcher and abductee Karla Turner said that the gold was in the details that didn’t fit. Wise words from someone who had every reason to toe the party line.
Let’s try something novel: Try to look at this account as anything other than aliens abducting people, since there is very little evidence of this, besides the “implant” part of the story.
There are so many details provided by “Vern” that Kay (and other researchers) seem to ignore. Why and how did he see these fish-eyed people walking around, talking to each other, and mowing the lawn for crissakes? Perhaps he dreamed it all, but this may indicate that we need to revise our definition of “dreaming.” So far, I know of no one who has collected children’s accounts of anomalous experiences. Of course, this would be fraught with problems, but a perceptive investigator might be able to tell waking, normal-consciousness stories from fantasies. This might also bring into question our definition of “fantasies” as well.
“Vern” never says that the beings took any notice of him, except when he decided to make them notice. Whitley Strieber mentioned once that he had uncovered evidence that in the 1950s, the authorities discovered that the “alien threat” could be kept at bay by denying that it existed–the more people disbelieved, the harder it would be for the extra-humans to invade our skies and minds.
At an early age, “Vern” and other children may have no idea what an “alien” is supposed to look like, especially before movies, TV, and UFO investigators came on the scene. From clues in the article (the man is now at least somewhat over 45 years old) this appears to have happened in the mid-to-late 1950s. The strange thing is that the memories don’t really conform to any standard of humanoids or monsters in the popular imagination at the time. The media and entertainment attitude at the time was decidedly negative and frightening with regards to non-human entities, but “Vern” was curious, not afraid.
In cases like this, the witness needs to be able to tell their stories completely, so that when knowledgeable people from diverse disciplines decide to look into where this stuff is coming from, they can deal with raw data, rather than accounts that have come through at least one dogmatic filter.
And another thing: Why does Kay refer to the “night people” as “extraterrestrials” and then in the same sentence refer to them as living in another dimension? If they are from other planets, then they live there. Perhaps they can travel in “other dimensions,” but language creates traps in our thinking that we must continually guard against, especially when we are looking at the paranormal.
We could go on with this for another 5000 words, but I’ll let the commenters take it from here.
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Mar 31 2007 
April 1st, 2007 at 12:08 am
Well Greg, you again have hit the nail on the head with your analysis of this article. I kept thinkin as I read it
Margie Kay, you seem rather matter of factly Margie Kay, why don’t you ask more questions and spew less gibberish?
Here is probably one of the more fascinating accounts about “this” genre, it raises so many questions and could answer many more.
But the problem is that UFOlogy is becoming the cult religion of the rationalist. Having sacrificed everything having to do with God, faith, magik and legend (much of which is real) they now have to re-interpret it because the phenominae will not be ignored. God, angels and the spirits that haunt this world will not go quietly into the night, so UFOlogists call it “extraterrestrial” why? Because then it would be something like us, something less unknown less threatening.
Margie would know what I was talking about if she was honest with herself. Ghost hunter? Psychic? ETH spokeswoman? Nice work if you can get it.
Jess
April 1st, 2007 at 7:31 am
Both the original blog comments by Greg and the followup comment by Jess are bullseye observations. Everything is being being run through a “filter” system now to make any and all anomalous occurrences “UC”…”Ufologically Correct”. And since , despite the efforts of the skeptipathics like Penn, Teller, Shermer,and “Owlman”, these things keep on happening…the more the rationalist-materialist mindset gets pushed into “explaining” all anomaliies in terms of the PARAMETERS of the UC mindset. And since it “cannot” be that there is a spiritual dimension or aspect to all this (since they “KNOW” there’s no “God’ or “fairies” or “daimons” or such), it “MUST” be biogically based ,from “out THERE” , in linear (THIS universe) “reality”.
Any other alternative is…unthinkable. And very UN-UC.
I don’t know where the “implant” came from out of “Vern’s” nose…and neither does Margie Kay. She’s just using it in true UC form. No direct correlation between that and the fish-eyed Night People at all, be she’s bound and determined to shoe-horn it in there with the same brand of determination Nickell shows when turning anomalies into owls.
The thing ol’ Whitley commented on about
the idea that these things gain “presence” through belief is something Nick Redfern and I have kicked around in private conversations before (with Cormons being the starting point in the discussion). Goes deep into myth and human perception. And to what is popularly termed the “Law of Attraction”, known in the world as a lifestyle methodology and subject of the bestseller “The Secret”. The idea is that the universal reality is malleable, just as quantum physics suggests”; that “I think, therefore I am”, also is “I think, therefore it is”, and “I think, therefore it shall be”. The foundation of faith in religion. And, perhaps, the origins of tulpas, magicks, and all manner of wondrous things. To set them in motion as becoming reality all one needs is belief, and the more intense the belief the greater the degree of fulfillment OF that belief. Tinker Bell takes poison meant for Peter Pan and begins to die. Pan urges everyone to believe in fairies and their power and to clap for Tink, to bring her back. They do and back she comes. Interesting message there and one deeply rooted in the psyches of all of us. Joseph Campbell would nod and smile. So would Jack Parsons.
If belief in something becomes intense and concentrated, does that something take form in our world? The Law of Attraction suggests so. Does the government know that “things” get drawn to us because we believe in them and are LESS drawn to us if we don’t? Is that why countries that have more religion and “superstition” among the populace have more fantastical things happen there in greater frequency? And does it follow from such that our tendencies to DIS-believe ratchets down the occurrence rate….not because the happenings (and entities) aren’t real, but because they are less drawn (attracted) to us? If HAARP and “chemtrails” are related, and if they have something to do with “mind control”, as some people claim, what aspect of controlling our minds might they be “set” on? Working to engender disbelief in UFOs and “boogers”? So that they’ll go away? Or at least diminish in numbers, observational encounters, or physical solidarity?
But if so, who does cattle mutilations and such? The same government? Counter-productive, wouldn’t it be? (But that would be TYPICAL of the government).
And all these illegals…full of religion and “superstition”…constantly flooding the country, why, they would be “bringing” UFOs and such WITH them through the Law of Attraction, would they not? There’ll be no end to it.
If all such speculative hullabaloo has any substance to it, then the skeptipathic naysayers seem to be fighting a loosing, rear-guard action to the “world of the weird”.
Is that good? Or not?
April 1st, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Jess,
You wrote: “it raises so many questions and could answer many more.”
This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that the commenters should take over.
As it is, this case will only be pored over by dilettantes like ourselves and put in the case files of Ufologists to be forgotten. I can’t tell you how many times researchers have related the strangest stories about “contact,” but then said that they weren’t important becuase they were too “weird.” Subject of a book perhaps?
April 1st, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Bill,
“Spot on” as Nick would say. If you listen to an interview I did with cattle mutilation researcher Chris O’Brien, he talks about the possibility that there is some sort of covert operation to seal up a portal that would let evil things into our existence. Strange, I know, but if you know anything about ritual magic, or even wish fulfillment, not too far off the conceptual mark.
We’re speaking heresy here! HERESY I tell you!
April 1st, 2007 at 11:22 pm
Heresy! Damn right! And I REVEL in it!!!!
Christopher O’Brien has a new Mysterious Valley book coming out, too.
Can hardly wait to get my hot heretical hands on it!!!! That San Luis Valley is one WEIRD place. I need to think about moving there one day! It absolutely strikes me as a “window” or “portal” area and covers a HELL of a lot more ground than the Skinwalker Ranch. That’d likely be a good spot for “Three or Four Weirdos seeking UFOs…or MIBs, or black silent helicopters, or…”.
yep. My kinda place. Just thinking about it makes me start going all heretical inside!!! Yeah!!!!!
April 2nd, 2007 at 12:06 am
Bill, you made an interesting observation with the chem trails. Have you ever noticed how many Americans, both adult and children are on psycho-active drugs?
Now maybe I am off on a tangent here but wasn’t Dr. Leary’s expiraments in the 1960’s all about how psycho-active, hypnotic and psychotropic drugs affected levels of consciousness? And isn’t a common thread in occult practice and magical practices the use of such drugs to open gateways or reduce thresholds to multi-dimensional realities?
In fact that is the common theme from midieval alchemists to plains indians who used paote and marijuana to “activate” their vision quests.
So what my mind jumps to isn’t that the government is using this knowledge to shore up dimensional boundry’s but rather they are pushing drugs, propaganda and seeding the skies with chemicals for the purpose of empowering one dimensional reality over another.
With so many people on these drugs, the threshold has got to be significantly lower not just for individuals but ambiently over huge regions. This might explain partly the “window” phenominae. With that in mind could it be that the amount of movies, books and documentaries that hype up the ETH is getting the populace ready to accept as “extraterrestrial” a future invasion of the “multidimensional?”
Well, I have speculated myself out for the evening.
Jess
April 2nd, 2007 at 9:38 am
Some interesting notions there, Jess. Stuff to puzzle over. The “other Hancock” (Graham) has a book out called “Supernatural”, relating the use of certain psychotrophic drugs as “enablers” in achieving “supernatural” experiences, and numerous voices have begun talking about Ayahuasca as a ‘bridge to the Other Side of reality”.
Its hard to figure out exactly what is going on with all this stuff. If Mother Sarah Graymalkin’s Cormons are the same as John Keel’s Ultraterrestrials, and if such are what we are contending with, then it would seem to me that keeping them OUT would be the foremost sane objective (they are deceivers and “benevolent space brothers” and “benevolent dolphin brothers” are just masks of subterfuge that they wear to snare alien-hugging liberals with..LOLOLOL!!!!). These would be the WORST form of illegals ever! And if the ongoing effort ever since the days of Sign, Grudge, and Blue Book has been to turn the collective mentality of the population away from believing in such things…so as to shore up defenses in our corner of the collective unconsciousness…then it would seem that changing that strategy now and trying to say to all minds listening that they are “okay”…they’re “just” aliens…would be a bit on the cuckoo side. Sounds like Raven’s “Silent Surrender” capitulation on another post thread.
This would be doing a strategic “180″ and that seems hard to credit.
Would still tend to think this is somehow “ANTI” on our part; something being done to kept the rascals out…however successful or unsuccessful that effort might be.
But, like Iraq. This may be the WRONG strategy. The world’s religions tell you that you rid yourself of these things by calling on the powers of the Divine to cast them away…to send them packing. Its like clearing a room with sage. You ORDER them away. I recall a story from one of O’Brien’s “Valley” books where a woman awoke one night suddenly to find her room filled with what sounds like “Greys”. It looked like the beginning of an abduction scenario. In this case it went differently because the woman asked them “Are you of the Light?”. This halted them. Then she told them “If you are of the Light, then welcome, ” (or some such)”but if you are of the darkness, begone.”
They then turned…and were begone.
I always found that impressive. It ties in, too, with teachings in Shamanism, Cabala, Huna, Christianity,Hermetics, and most all great spiritual thinking; that you are more than merely a biological entity; you are a spirit entity with great powers and abilities…most of which you DON’T REALIZE YOU POSSESS. And the “adversaries” don’t WANT you to realize such. They want to dazzle you with THEIR abilities and induce you to not comprehend (or apprehend)your own.
This is more poker playing. This is their bluff. They want you to capitulate…to “fold”…by making you think they have the winning hand…and they don’t.
I sometimes wonder if all this is part of what is being talked about in all this 2012 business. A new spirituality, some say. Does that mean we are going to wake up and kick ultraterrestrial butt (and CSICOP’s too)? Would likely have to be something like that to get the job done.
I doubt that HAARP and chem-trails can pull it off.
April 2nd, 2007 at 10:20 am
“Late abduction researcher and abductee Karla Turner said that the gold was in the details that didn’t fit. Wise words from someone who had every reason to toe the party line.”
It’s funny that you quoted a person who would have most definatley percieved this man’s experience as being a possible abduction.
Karla Turner, God-rest-her-soul, along with Dr. David Jacobs, are the only two researchers who I am aware who have publicly stated that you cannot just automaticly believe everything told by an abductee. {reference Turner’s outrage/frustration that abductees are claiming the abduction, and the horrible things that go on during them, are positive, even ‘new-agey’ in nature.)
Dr. Jacobs had made a long list of frequent ‘lies’ told by abductees concernig their experience. I remember reading somewhere where Jacobs says that one of the things that gives away the fact that the person is lying is because what they are saying doesn’t make sence. For example, often abductees will state that they can’t see the faces of the beings, i.e. ‘black-blur’. Jacobs realizes this is non-sense as abductees routinely describe the faces of their captors at other times/episodes. Usualy these types of lies are created, and fuly believed in, in order to protect the abductee from an incredible level of fear.
With regards to this case, it’s make no since that a child could ’see’ so-called-’night people’ go about a normal life, even MOWING GRASS. More than likely, this is either nothing more than a series of strange dreams or the person is an abductee and has chosen to lie to himself as a form of protection. No one likes to be a victim. Lies sometimes empower people.
-Jason
April 2nd, 2007 at 11:08 am
With all the talk of implants…and this always in the context of little physical foreign objects in people’s bodies…might it not be that such implants are bogus little red herrings and that the real implants are thoughts, memories, and concepts that are “implanted’ in the minds/psyches of the abductees? Might it be…back to “magician”/illusionists again…that “one hand diverts attention
while the other does the trick”? That we do all our wondering about what these little objects coming out of people’s noses are, instead of wondering what’s been done to their minds, to their souls. Jason’s comment about the possibilities of self-delusion with regard to the fish-eyed people doing “normal” things and mowing the gress is quite cogent. It all smacks of denial and transformational mental defense mechanisms. Its like this mind is working hard to make something emotionally shattering more palatable; “normalizing” something bizarre to make it somehow easier to deal with. Lying to one’s self in the memory in order to LIVE with one’s self in the present. Grasping at straws to preserve one’s sanity.
More and more evidence says, simply, they lie. They are deceivers. And sometimes they turn us into self-deceivers in the course of their deceptions. And maybe the great deal of these “Atomigeddon Dreams” that Nick speaks of are implanted too….put there to scare the sh– out of us and make us turn to “our benevolent space brothers” to …..”save” us?
April 2nd, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Jason,
You say that Karla Turner would have said that this man’s experiences were abductions. I gather that you infer this from reading her books and one quote that seems to contradict the one I brought up.
The reason I used this quote/ idea is that she told it to me directly, I published it in my magazine, and we discussed it in many conversations. So my use of her idea is not an inference, it was one of Turner’s basic assumptions, used on a case-by-case basis.
The point I’m trying to make is that to most people, the “classic” alien abduction is an assumption. By the methods available to us, it hasn’t been proven as an external experience either, at least not as something that just anyone could have or even observe second-hand. Strange encounters with non-human beings have been going on for thousands of years, and have been described in many ways. The current “classic” abduction scenario has been with us as a model only since the 1960s.
Turner did not of course believe everything related by supposed abductees, she took them on individually. If some data points matched, there was reason to believe that there was more to the story, and maybe more importantly, the details that didn’t “fit.”
I would also not compare Turner’s methods to Jacobs, who seems to me to accept everything that fits with his theories, and reject aspects that do not.
Your theory about the experience described is just a good as any other, and may be true. What I am saying is that researchers who study abductions in a self-created vacuum may be cutting themselves off from any real progress.
I like to apply Carl Jung’s quote on UFOs in the broadest sense: “Something is seen, but no one knows what it is.”
April 2nd, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Bill,
Sure. Why not?
April 2nd, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Att Gregg:
“You say that Karla Turner would have said that this man’s experiences were abductions. I gather that you infer this from reading her books and one quote that seems to contradict the one I brought up.”
I wrote that Karla would have considered this man’s case as a probable abduction.
“The point I’m trying to make is that to most people, the “classic†alien abduction is an assupmtion.”
Yes, it is a logical assumption. Just like the ETH is a logical assumption.
“By the methods available to us, it isn’t proven as an external experience either, at least not as something that anyone could have or even observe second-hand.”
Not true in all examples. There are many reported cases with multiple witnesses. For some reason, such cases inspire extremely harsh attack from UFO skeptics and believers alike. Why?
“Strange encounters with non-human beings have been going on for thousands of years, and have been described in many ways. The abduction scenario has been with us as a model only since the 1960s.”
Could not this same information lend credence to it’s genuinity?
“I would also not compare Turner’s methods to Jacobs, who seems to me to accept everything that fits with his theories, and reject aspects that do not.”
Of course I won’t argue against your opinion, but I will state I disagree. I don’t believe Dr. Jacobs had any theories to begin with, something seemingly unheard of with regards to more younger researchers. Also realize this is a man who was completely against the reality of Alien Abduction. I’ve always wondered what swayed him along the line.
I have found from reading his books and/or theories, that the field of Ufology, more imortantly ‘alien abduction’, has a misunderstood genius with regard to this man’s intuitive understanding to always take into account human psychology with regard to the phenomena. To be able to understand that almost all abductees embellish their stories with various motivations of the aliens and or experiences that never occured. A perfect example of his ‘widsdom’ is when he is dealing with an abductee who claims they fought-off or did something to prevent an abduction. Without resorting to accusations of ‘liar!’, Dr. Jacobs calmly steers the person back to certain inconsistancies in their recollection, often multiple times! At some point, usualy, the abductee finaly realizes that something isn’t adding up and by questioning his/her memories further often finds that this belief is nothing more than wish-fullfilment, that an abduction did in fact occur, and often the abductee is only conciously recalling the very beginning of the experience and then the very end, when the aliens leave.
What I also like about Dr. Jacobs is that he doesn’t waste time pondering arcane or mystical explanations of the phenomena. Nor does he dwell on the emotional aspects/feelings of abductees. He fully understands that only the actions and or communications during an experience are of importance, esp. when the abductors are said to be able to alter our perceptions.
With regards to Jung’s quote, was this stated before or after his halucination of floating into heaven and boarding a craft? I dig Jung’s work a great deal, but alas, I must admit that time is revealing him to be more of a shaman than a psychologist/psycho-analysist.
-Jason
April 3rd, 2007 at 12:13 am
Jason,
1) “I wrote that Karla would have considered this man’s case as a probable abduction.”
No, you said she “would have most definatley percieved this man’s experience as being a possible abduction” which although equivocating a bit, is a little more definite than what I suggested, which was that she would likely have concentrated on the details that others throw out. I never said that she wouldn’t have thought it wasn’t an abduction.
2) “Not true in all examples. There are many reported cases with multiple witnesses. For some reason, such cases inspire extremely harsh attack from UFO skeptics and believers alike. Why?”
Multiple witnesses is good. What do the witnesses agree on? Have they been separated and have they told the same stories? Are there recordings of these interviews so that we can tell if the researcher is leading them? Hypnosis and witness questioning by self-trained “experts” is notoriously mercurical, since the witness is looking for any sort of logic or meaning to make sense of their experience. I do not say that they didn’t have something weird and disturbing happen to them, perhaps even an encounter with non-human entities. One researcher (a clinical psychologist) who was a friend of mine and an abductee said that “Most abduction researchers have little respect for or understanding of the subconscious.”
2)”Yes, it is a logical assumption. Just like the ETH is a logical assumption.”
Yes it’s logical. It hasn’t gotten us anywhere with ultimate answers, but it’s logical- even though it’s based on assumptions with no provable objective evidence.
3) “Could not this same information lend credence to it’s genuinity?”
Yes, it could, in the same way that some people insist that the world is flat because they refuse to take a trip to the edge. Models should change or be modified if they are getting us nowhere, or nowhere fast.
4) “What I also like about Dr. Jacobs is that he doesn’t waste time pondering arcane or mystical explanations of the phenomena. Nor does he dwell on the emotional aspects/feelings of abductees.”
A mistake in my opinion. Humans are logical and emotional creatures. We seem to have a disagreement on what we accept as evidence. That’s cool.
5)”I must admit that time is revealing him to be more of a shaman than a psychologist/psycho-analysist.”
I submit that he was both, and I don’t reject his theories because of it. A look at Jacobs’ curriculum vitae reveals him to possess a doctorate in history, not psychology, and I wouldn’t reject his ideas because of that either.
Thanks for the comments. They made me think, and that’s always good.